My child is afraid of dogs - any tips?

[longforasnooze]

Hi, my nearly 4 year old has been afraid of dogs for as long as I can remember, though he has never had a bad experience, and certainly we are not fearful so no nervousness from me. He would cross the road when he saw one coming, leap into my arms if one got close and make a lot of fuss. Any kind or size of dog, doesn't matter, he panics. I know fear is irrational but....no reasoning will placate him.
My partner wanted a dog for his birthday and has always wanted one and we felt my son was now old enough to cope, and we decided to get a puppy so it would be totally unthreatening. We reasoned that once the unknown element was gone he would warm to it and think it was fun.
We are now 4 days into him being at home, he is a gentle and quiet little dog and very curious about the children. The baby doesn't care, but there is no improvement in my 4 year old, who will barely be in the same room as it, climbs up to the highest point from it if he is, and is generally being panicky and squealy. We have confined it to the kitchen so he feels safe in 'his' spaces, offered endless rewards for stroking it, or being friendly, struggling to find behaviour towards it we can praise, reasoned on all logical fronts, watched Scooby Doo!!
Does anyone have any experience of helping their child through their fear of dogs so they can become friends. I would hate the dog to get older, see his fear and then think he was the boss. Any helpful hints greatly appreciated.

[claw3]

Midori, from what i have read the pack theory is against aggression. It involves thinking like a dog, not acting like one and biting!

From what i saw, Victoria advised the man to act like a dog, which backs up the pack theory.

[mathanxiety]

Yes, a four year old would trust his parents' judgement -- if the parents have worked to show that child that they can be trusted, then they will be trusted. This is not a matter of telling the child to trust, or expecting trust to be a natural right, or expecting the child to ignore his own worries and fears.

This seems to be a child who doesn't approach change with confidence, and has reacted negatively when change has happened -- clearly there is some insecurity or lack of trust there, and he doesn't feel very 'on board' with the developments in his life.

The message the OP gives the child by 'giving up' is that she is sensitive to the child, that the child has a right to be heard, that the child's fears are taken seriously, and the child can trust his mum to see things from his pov and not put him in a situation where the desires of others are put ahead of his feelings. OP says her child has been afraid of dogs for a long time, yet she went ahead and got a dog for her DP -- signalling to the child that the DP is more important to her than the fact that the child has this strong and persistent fear.

I wouldn't consider it 'giving up' prematurely (or 'giving in' to the child this is an undercurrent here) I would call it acknowledgement of a mistake and adjustment of a pov that will ultimately benefit the parent/ child relationship, and contribute to the development of trust in the long run because the child will know that his mum is willing to listen to him. No child can feel comfortable or secure (or trust the parents)in an environment where the adults are not sensitive to him and put his needs and feelings behind others'.

[midori1999]

People are being ridiculous. It is perfectly possible to have a dog and a child that is terrified of dogs in the same house without frightening the child. The puppy can easily be kept away from or seperate from the child until the child is comfortable with it. It sounds like the OP's child is already more comfortable with the puppy than she was on it's arrival.

I doubt the OP is holding her4 child down forcing it to sit next to the dog.

[midori1999]

claw3, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. Howeve,r if you have any links that back up your theory I'd be happy to read them. I'm pretty sure you haven't read any of the links I have posted, or you may be mor eopen minded...

Oh, an dyou aksed me earlier 9and another poster) if I had any children. Do you mind if I ask why you wanted to know or what relevance you think it has?

[dreamingofsun]

well i'm going to sign off now as i need to go and shout at my children for a bit. Or perhaps shut them in the garden for a bit of snow phobia training, whilst i help myself to some wine sitting on the sofa with my dog

[ImSoNotTelling]

I don't know midori I just read the OP again and it doesn't sound great. Have a read of the OP again:

Hi, my nearly 4 year old has been afraid of dogs for as long as I can remember, though he has never had a bad experience, and certainly we are not fearful so no nervousness from me. He would cross the road when he saw one coming, leap into my arms if one got close and make a lot of fuss. Any kind or size of dog, doesn't matter, he panics. I know fear is irrational but....no reasoning will placate him....

We are now 4 days into him being at home..... there is no improvement in my 4 year old, who will barely be in the same room as it, climbs up to the highest point from it if he is, and is generally being panicky and squealy. "

I can't find a way of putting a positive spin on that.

It may be that the child will simply learn to keep out of the dogs way - stay in bedroom with the door shut for example. o guarantee that being forced into close quarters will mean the child "gets over it".

If I was the child I would be wondering why my mum had done it TBH.

[mathanxiety]

If a child had claustrophobia, would you make him sleep in a closet?

A child with a strong and persistent fear of dogs is now sharing his home with one. How is that good for the child or for the parent/ child relationship, or for the dog if the child doesn't hurry up and get over himself?

Just because dogs are great (I love them but 2 of the DCs are allergic) and clearly a lot of other posters here agree with me and the OP on this, that doesn't mean getting a dog is the right thing to do for the family that includes this child, and now that they've gone ahead and got the dog, the sensible thing to do, for the dog's sake as well as for the child's, is to try to place it in a home where it will not scare anyone through no fault of its own.

[ImSoNotTelling]

Op says

"Thanks for all your messages. We have made some progress today, he just came in the kitchen with us and the dog who was on the sofa, gave it one of its toys carefully, which I praised big time, then pulled up a chair to sit with us. Let himself in and out of the room without fuss and has twice been to the door to call the dog to him."

Which struck me as odd and so I had another look. All family are in kitchen with dog and DC is in other part of house as he is scared? So if he wants to see family he has to run gauntlet of dog lounging on sofa?

It just doesn't sound like how I would do things, it really doesn't.

[claw3]

I did read the link you posted about CM and stated i wasnt aware of it. As with all theories, someone will abuse them.

www.wikihow.com/Control-Your-Dog's-Behavior-by-Becoming-Pack-Leader

Just wondered whether people with children took a different approach to dogs being on the settee. As you said you have children, so thats that theory out of the window!

Anyhow have a read, see what you think

[lucyellensmumagain]

dogs, pigs, cardboard tubes and backing onto the sofa - this thead is weird!!

[claw3]

LOL you forgot cats too!

[midori1999]

Hmm.... I have read the link...

being pack leader will mean your dog doesn't pull on the lead during walks, but you still need to yank on a choke chain to ensure that?! Surely choke chains as a trainign aid went out with the Ark?!

Your dog will automatically respect your possessions?!

A dog will try to become pack leader if no-one else is?!

Here, have a read of this: (I did post it earlier, but you might like a look at it)

positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=600

[Vallhala]

Claw, FWIW I have 2 DDs and two large breed dogs. The dogs are allowed on the sofas (or wherever else they care to go, as long as it's not the kitchen surfaces or dining table!). This is fine with me as both are very well behaved and present no issues or problems as a result.

Does that bugger up any theories too?!

[midori1999]

this link might actually work

positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=600

[longforasnooze]

It's not that I don't want honesty, it's just that your honest opinion is based on no real knowledge. This is my first time using a discussion forum, and I am not used to coming under attack. To be honest I see little point in declaring people terrible parents on a discussion forum, firstly how can you possibly know and secondly what sort of 'discussion' are you hoping will arise? My thread did specifically ask for tips based on experience. So do you have any relevant experience, then perhaps we can get back onto the thread I wanted to use. The dog is not leaving at this stage, it is too early and we are making steps forward. Secondly, he is not paralytic with fear, if he was shaking, wetting the bed, having nightmares or any such extreme response it would perhaps be appropriate to say this was an ill conceived plan. He is merely nervous, and that is fair enough, and we will take it all at his pace.
There is a warning note at the top of this thread that says people may disagree with you. While I understand you may think I have made a bad decision, there is no need for a personal attack, and as my thread asks for advice not condemnation, perhaps I could politely ask people to keep it as advice, or anecdotes of personal experience.
I will add a note in the future as to whether we met with success or not and then people can make their judgements based on my experience. How about that.

[midori1999]

Imsonottelling, I can see what you're saying, it;s nto how I would handle it either, but the OP did state she was unsure of how to handle the situation and was asking for help. I have said I believe it is perfectly possible to have a child that is scared of dogs and a dog in the same house, without frightening the child and I stick to that. In fact, I have done it myself. My youngest DS was scared of dogs when we got our current 'first' dog, and I managed to have them both in the same house without ever uspetting my child and now he loves ALL of my dogs. In fact, any dogs.

The OP has recieved some harsh critisiscm, which hasn't been especially constructive and has now decided to leave the thread, and so will still be in the position where she is unsure of how to handle the situation.

[Pikelit]

Gah!!!!! Pack leader bollocks!

It is SO debunked and thank goodness for that!

Dogs (and I do speak from long experience) like "leadership" and "boundaries". But they are not, secretly, planning world domination and certainly, being able to sit on the sofa or to go through the door first is not part of this imaginary "When Dogs Rule The World" agenda.

It is important to set sensible boundaries because dogs are happier when they know where they stand. They also like to respect their human which is why kind and consistent training makes for good companionship all round. But for sure, they don't confuse us with other dogs and therefore are not competing with us to be any sort of pack leader.

(Sorry to distract your topic longforasnooze. It sounds as if progress is being made)

[longforasnooze]

some people are also being terribly patronising......my boyfriend is more important than you...? How about Your father desires some things for himself as the children otherwise run the house, and he would like a dog and should it ever harm you in any way it will be taken away. Have you checked your children aren't off bullying people on facebook?!

[claw3]

Aha, thats why i didnt read, your links dont link Midori!

Vallhala, the point i was trying to make about half a mile up the thread now, was that it can confuse SOME dogs and to be careful if you have no knowledge of dogs and children in the house.

Yes i give up now, all theories are out of the window, damn you all

[longforasnooze]

Thank you Midori, I think that is why I'm getting really annoyed, it is somewhat hypocritical of people to accuse me of not listening to my child, when I have come to ask for useful advice and instead been endlessly insulted. If you are all genuinely wanting my child's life to be improved your comments could have been better thought through. This is my first time here, this was not quite how I imagined it would be. mathsanxiety spouting a psych textbook at me and so on. Things can go off in different directions but I think this has got too personal now.

[lucyellensmumagain]

"This is my first time using a discussion forum, and I am not used to coming under attack"

Fuck me longforasnooze - you certainly picked the right place for your first post!!! Baptism of fire - you have to build yourself up slowly to AIBU!! because there will always be a queue of people to tell you, in no uncertain terms, yes you are being unreasonable/bad mother/horrible person/miserable cow - and that is for minor offences such as the feeding of fruitshoots!! Its not personal, but AIBU is where you post once you have developed the skin of a rhino!!

[lucyellensmumagain]

(sorry but ive always wanted to say this) You might prefer Netmums

[longforasnooze]

Thanks Lucy. I think you may be right, practical advice has lost big time, it went well to start with and then the opinion police entered. Instead I shall go to bed with my tail between my legs, probably wet the bed and wake up with a phobia of anyone who says the word dog. I don't even know the acronyms, AIBU?!