to be shocked that 'normal' people can be racist?

[MitchyInge]

unreasonable or just spectacularly naive to have discovered that there are people working with (or for the interests of) asylum seekers who begrudge and resent the help they receive?

am not about to start reading the Guardian or anything but I feel a bit sick after being privy to a semi-private discussion which ran along the lines of - ugh, I can't repeat it

admittedly I don't live in the most multi-cultural place in the world so perhaps am just not aware of all the issues

Well, the working class is an easy and acceptable target, especially the white ones.
Does seem more prevalent on MN than elsewhere I am afraid.

what's that?

could it be the sound of mrsruffallo's point flying right over ninah's head?

people of these isles? what isles, we are part of Europe
It was you who said 'eastern europeans work longer and cost less'

I am white working class fwiw

Well its easy to do and people are entitled to have their own views on issues including race, especially after hearing extremists srout hate towards the West, Sharia law in the UK than are happy to recieve benefits from the very system/people that they hate. I do think that if they do not like it they can go back to where they came from imo. No i am not a member of the BNP/nat front, they would infact tell my mum to go back to where she came from which is Cyprus in the 60's and my family is originally from Armenia. But just hate it when those extremists sprout their hatred, we could never get away with freedom of speech in an Islamic country.

The British are not internationally renowned for being hard working. It's not 'my' stereotype

I guess it is the same kind of thing, nasty remarks about a group of people

but it shocked me because there was something really hate-filled behind it, a resentment that one person might get something that, from my contact's point of view, she or someone like her was more entitled to

and she said such ridiculous things, like why should 'they' get council accommodation and then ask for furniture, if they want furniture they should rent a furnished flat privately - am naive I think, but where would you scrape the deposit and rent from in those circumstances?

just, from someone who is supposed to understand and promote the interests of people in that particular form of distress, I dunno

is horrible to think that people in need will be soothed by some external display of professionalism while inside lurks all that venom

"people of these isles? what isles, we are part of Europe"

You understand that the British Isles are part of Europe, yes?

"It was you who said 'eastern europeans work longer and cost less'"

Bad form to misquote someone like that.

What she actually said was

"eastern europeans being hired because they cost less and as many do not have family here, are availiable for longer hours as they don't have to get back home"

That is not racial stereotyping. It is an attempt to explain the competition that migrant workers present to British workers. Trying to call that racist is just trying to shut down discussion through the use of insults.

MitchyInge

"I mean racially prejudiced, a very strong bias against a particular group of people - you know, casting them in a negative light. It was quite poisonous."

It is hard to make the distinction from this end of the keyboard without knowing what was said.

The problem is that in many cases people confuse the two.

yes, I totally agree MitchyInge
I was shocked similarly by an off the cuff remark from my neighbour which revealed similar attitudes
Must be particuarly shocking in a professional context

skidoodle I am not calling anyone racist
'cost less'
OK, and 'are available for longer hours'

"The British are not internationally renowned for being hard working. It's not 'my' stereotype"

But you're happy to spread it around and speak as though it were true?

No stereotype belongs to one person. Their power comes from an appeal to "common sense" (or "international renown"). The people who perpetuate them never take ownership of them.

well have given an example of the sort of thing, rubbish at conveying the spite behind it though

she just kept bringing herself into it - I have suffered this, I have endured that, nobody gave me a council flat or money for furniture and so on and saying that she felt, I forget the word, let's say unhappy, about helping one group of people get 'more' than British people in comparable situations

except the situations were not remotely comparable, since the British people by and large had made free choices and were not subject to the sort of persecution and torture that the asylum seekers had endured, and that she - how shall we put it? made light of

This is the UN definition of racial discrimination, as some people seem concerned about it being a confusing concept:

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

OK. We have a fine work force.

if that's not racist then what is?

skidoodle, thanks for clarifying my point in such an eloquent manner.
However, I feel our efforts are wasted here.

yabu to be shocked
some of the worst disablist commnents I have heard are made by people who say they work with disabled people/children, so assume it would be the same with racism

Mitchy that is totally upsetting and depressing to hear yanbu

Well its not surprising really quite a lot of people do hold racist views not necessarily extreme, its just not something that you shout out about, and not just to do with White British people but racisim between different Ethnic groups.

MitchyInge, I think while what your friend said was quite offensive, I think what you are saying is also rather offensive. Many people born in this country have terrible lives, particularly those people who require most assistance from the state and charities.

I used to work in homelessness and I really felt no need to establish a moral pecking order between an asylum seeker fleeing persecution and a British born care leaver who had suffered physical and sexual abuse at the hands of their parents for many years. There are very many British people who have had terrible lives.

There are also many people whose lives are awful because they messed up. Everyone deserves a second chance and a helping hand.

People in comparable situations should get equal help. Why they got into that situation is irrelevant (apart from certain legal requirements in housing).

As the CEO of Crisis, Shaks Ghosh, pointed out (to paraphrase), we cannot solve the problems of the entire world, but it is a disgrace that a rich country like Britain cannot solve its homelessness problem.

sorry if I implied somewhere that British people are born into some kind of utopia, or are immune from suffering - or that their experiences count for less than those of an asylum seeker

it's because I've given such a patchy account of the conversation, her examples were of people who had left the UK, bought property abroad, fallen on hard times and returned to the UK (still legal owners of the property abroad) and applied for council housing only to be deemed intentionally homeless or something or at least to be further down the waiting list

just didn't think it compared with a genuine asylum seeker

I agree that it is a nonsensical comparison your friend is making. An obvious solution seems to be that we need to build a lot more council houses.

or do something about all the empty houses and flats everywhere