to be shocked that 'normal' people can be racist?

[MitchyInge]

unreasonable or just spectacularly naive to have discovered that there are people working with (or for the interests of) asylum seekers who begrudge and resent the help they receive?

am not about to start reading the Guardian or anything but I feel a bit sick after being privy to a semi-private discussion which ran along the lines of - ugh, I can't repeat it

admittedly I don't live in the most multi-cultural place in the world so perhaps am just not aware of all the issues

"if asylum isn't working in this country then it is not the asylum seekers fault"

If the reason it's not working is because the system is swamped by people attempting to claim asylum who aren't entitled to it, then surely that would be the fault of some of the people who are claiming asylum?

If the reason it's not working is because the government is deliberately making it virtually impossible for people to legitimately claim asylum in the UK, then obviously that is not the fault of any of the people trying to claim.

Why you believe it's not working is likely to depend on your political views. The whole issue has become one where any kind of meaningful discussion is impossible because people wade in with insults before even clarifying what people are really talking about.

If people who work in the asylum system have a low opinion of the asylum seekers they come across, is that because they are racists or because their experience has given them certain insights that have disillusioned them?

"I have two mixed race children and when I first rented a house here the local people got up a petition to stop the landlord letting it to us in case it lowered the value of their property!"

"also had various old ladies cooing over my double pushchair and telling me I was doing a 'marvellous job' and was very brave to have 'taken them on' and it took me AGES to realise they must have thought I'd adopted them, haha"

although also a bit

I've got racist neighbours. Rednecks.Moral of the story never move to the country

I was recently a bit and offended by our neighbour. He is early 50s, dd1 visits him and his wife and I always found them to be lovely.

Then his dd had her first baby, wonderful news. He showed dd the photos on his camera. One of the midwives happened to be of Chinese origin. He kept on and on about the "chinky" . Perhaps I should have challenged it directly, his wife kept correcting him but he still kept on, not sure why. I politely changed the subject but felt v uncomfortable tbh.

that sort of thing, like the way some people behaved towards my family when we moved here, doesn't bother me too much - I think because it's fear/ignorance, simply not knowing any better

the discussion that upset me earlier revolved mainly around one quite-chippy-at-the-best-of-times person bemoaning all the terrible traumas she has endured without any sort of help from our state while others come here, claiming to be in fear of persecution (whether they have suffered or were simply in fear - both sound pretty dire to me) and, according to her, end up with far more than local people in similar plights

it just sounded really bigoted and hateful and I can't back this up but am really pretty sure that asylum seekers are not entitled to the full range of benefits that UK nationals are - they get less don't they? and I just thought UGH at my friend who was agreeing with her

and anyway, even if people who arrive here under those circumstances do somehow end up better off than their British counterparts does it MATTER? isn't it a bit inhumane to want them to be materially worse off when the odds are they have already suffered a great deal?

"i do think you may be hormonally challenged currently"

Thirty. Nine. Weeks.

"If i lived in shithole 'a' and there was a country somewhere that let me lead an ok life and educate my children so they were going to be out of grinding poverty then would i be wrong to strive for that?"

Absolutely not. But if you did move to that other country and made up a fake story so you could attempt to claim asylum that you were not entitled to, then you would be contributing to problems with the asylum system there.

I don't think it's racist to be concerned over the immigration explosion in this country.
We do not have limitless resources. Asylum seekers are not always genuine believe it or not.

When it's hard for working people to get by then people do become resentful, which is why many people from immigrant backgrounds are as concerned as anyone else.
It doesn't mean anyone is a nazi or that the BNP are going to gain power, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed intelligently without the usual accusations of racism.

I guess the people in the field of work the OP describes see the worst of it and do become quite cynical.

on balance I'd have more sympathy with a fake asylum seeker who'd actually got up and moved continents to try to improve their lot than someone who just moaned that the state wasn't doing enough for them, or a homegrown benefits cheat

I dunno, Mitchyinge, I know my parents took quite a bit of stick back in the 70s (they are Irish) and I know that they are eligble for everything a UK national is eligble for (even though they aren't UK nationals and therefore don't pay tax in the same way)

I can understand why people would be annoyed (I do know (personally) of Irish people who just 'happen' to be in the Uk when their baby is due and therefore get full medical attention free of charge.. I'm sure that happens quite a lot, to be honest.

But, I still draw the line of actually disliking someone simply because they are dark skinned / green eyes / in a wheelchair. I find it hard to understand how someone could make that judgement call on an individual.

as far as working people goes the British have always been shy in coming forwards for low paid crap jobs. But quick to knock 'immigrants' from 'taking' them

"asylum seekers are not entitled to the full range of benefits that UK nationals are - they get less don't they"

Asylum seekers aren't even allowed to work.

If their claim is successful then AFAIK they are treated well by the state. As they should be, since that's what offering asylum means.

"i would move to another country and make up a fake story if i thought it would help my children-i am sorry but i would"

Oh so would I. And I wouldn't even apologise for it

"as far as working people goes the British have always been shy in coming forwards for low paid crap jobs But quick to knock 'immigrants' from 'taking' them"

How outrageous of them - imagine not wanting to be exploited by someone making money out of your labour and resenting cheap imported labour that is brought in specifically to undercut you

these racist working class oiks really need to learn what's what

I don't know anyone who thinks like that, ninah.
I know some people in the building trade who have been severely effected by eastern europeans being hired because they cost less and as many do not have family here, are availiable for longer hours as they don't have to get back home.
I am not sure of the solution to this, other than to curb the greed of the employers.
Immigration is not the problem, it's the scale of it along with myriad bogus asylum seekers and the burden on the infrastructure.

Are you actually meaning racist or palitically incorrect views?

In Britian we are Europeans aren't we? Unfortunately, deserved or not, we have a reputation for not being particularly hard working. I have overheard anti Polish comments locally, and my neighbours have expressed anti 'black' sentiments. Political correctness is what, exactly? these comments are based on ethnic origin

Skidoodle, not only are they not allowed to work, they only get something like 75% of rate of benefit that UK nationals get - ie, three quarters of what has been decreed as the minimum amount required to live on.

Or, as in the case of my friend who fled from Algeria in fear of her life, they may get "section 4" support, which is a £35 asda card. (Which is useless when she doesn't have cash to pay for a bus to get there!)

We have no idea of the nature of the comments, other than they concerned the OP.
No one on this thread has made anti Polish or black remarks if that is what you mean.

There are many hardworking people in this country, silly to stereotype by race don't you think?

gosh the day I get accused of political correctness will be the day I eat my horse - am a dyed in the wool Tory

I mean racially prejudiced, a very strong bias against a particular group of people - you know, casting them in a negative light. It was quite poisonous.

AP-once asylum has been granted they are entitled to more than an ASDA card.
I don't have a problem with people receiving the minimum whilst awaiting the decision, and I am sure if they are genuine, then it must be a great relief that their lives are no longer in danger

racist is steotyping IS stereotyping by race ffs
aiu to be shocked that normal people can be racist
that is we're talking about

But as usual, on MN, although we are all horrified by racism, it is perfectly acceptable to make nasty remarks about working class people.

I'm sure it is a huge, massive relief, pass the fecking bourbons

But you are the only person that stereotyped by race, ninah dear, by suggesting that those of these isles are lazy.
Do you see what I mean?
No suggestion of racial stereotyping in OP's post