To Expect DSC To Visit DH Here?

[midori1999]

Due to DH's job, (army) we live in Northern Ireland. His children (DSS aged 13 and DSD agd 17) live in England. Currently, since living here DH has either visited the DSC in England, which involves him having to pay for a guest house and then having to take the DSC out all day each day he is there/sees them, and buying them lunch and dinner prior to returning them home. Obviously this works out expensive.

The other option if for DH to collect his children, fly over here with them, then fly home with them again when he returns them home. This obviously involves two return flights for DH and flighs for the DSC. Still expensive, but the less expensive of the two options, and it also mean she gets to see the DSC more as they are staying here, and I get to see them too. However, due to DH's work constraints it means he sees the children less than he'd like, due to the time taken to collect/return the DSC.

DH has tried to push for DSC Mum to allow them to fly over on their own, but their Mum so far will not allow them. She also says DH shoudl visit the DSC there as it is important for them to spend time alone with him. (in fact, she is generally very difficult and I suspect this is one reason she wll not allow them to fly alone). I can understand the children want so spend time alone with their Dad, and we always make sure he has some 'alone time' with them here, even if it is just a trip to the cinema or walking the dogs together.

I'll be honest, I am pretty fed up with his ex wife demanding he visits there, and feel it is not unreasonable to expect the DSC to stay here and husband not to visit them there, or at least only do so in exceptional circumstances. Not least as due to his job he sees his children little enough as it is and spends enough time away from home already.

Is it unreasonable to expect DSC to stay here when they see their Dad?

I don't think it's unreasonable at all. If they're his children too why is she making all the decisions? A 17 and 13 YO are perfectly capable of flying without your DH accompanying them too.

It sounds like their mother doesn't want the children to spend any time with you to be honest.

She doesn't want them to fly alone - she is entitled to that choice. Therefore yabu, if your dh wants to see them he has to carry on as it is.

Is she entitled to that choice if it is not best for the children though? It means the time they see their father is limited and DSD does not get on especially well with her Mum and is having problems at the moment. I can't help but think seeeing her Dad more would help her a lot.

Her reason for not allowing DSD to fly alone is that they can't be trusted not to fight. Yet she leaves them at home alone often and for fairly long periods of time. Surely they are less likely to fight on a plane full of other people/a chaperone than alone at home?

Why should it be her choice if her children fly alone or not? He is their father, doesn't he have some say in the matter? FGS, how precious - I left home at 17

YANBU

13 & 17 is old enough to sit on a plane for a couple of hours without battering each other

surely there could be a compromise here somewhere?

how will the DCs forge a relationship with teh OP if they never see her?

She is their mother - we can all look at other parents choices and disagree but whether or not she wants them to fly alone or not is really up to her. Obviously she doesn't feel they are mature or responsible enough yet.
Your dh is in a career that takes him away from his children, its up to him to make that work.

Does the father's POV not matter at all in your world JeremyVile? God how unbearably controlling

I think at 12 & 17 the children should have a choice in this aswell.

Blimey. This puts looneymum's problem into perspective, then. (can't do links, sorry). Her ex is about to emigrate to Australia and wants her DDs aged 5 and 7 to fly out to see him without her. He says she's being unreasonable!

Unfortunately if parents disagree about whether children are old enough or sensible enough to undertake and activity and one says 'yes' and the other says 'no', it is the one who says 'no' who gets priority.

Ladybiscuit - well obviously all situations are easier where there is compromise but where there are two opposing views I would say that the opinion of the resident, day-to-day parent takes priority over the one with the career that takes him so far away from the children in the first place.

My ex lives in central America ( and has done so for the past 12 years) so only sees son1(17) and son2(15) once or possibly twice a year. Generally he flies over to see them(and his parents) but they have been to see him three times. Once the three of us flew to America for a holiday, we had a week together and then for the second week sons flew on their own from Miami to Central America and I had a week on my own! They were 6 and 8 at the time and were well looked after on the plane ( they flew first class!) The second time ( when 10 and 12) they flew on their own to New York and he met them there before travelling on together. last year they flew to Miami and ex's new wife met them there and they will probably do the same this summer. Accompanied children are VERY well looked after when flying and so far we have managed to avoid any unaccompanied transfers ( my only worry!) I do think the childrens mother is being rather unreasonable about not letting them fly alone, I would rather my sons saw their father more often than put obstacles in their way

It doesn't sound as if she wants them to see him at HIS home at all ..... whether or not they fly accompanied by him, or on their own.

Why exactly is the mother "entitled" to put her foot down about these older children flying on their own, when it's a relatively short flight and when, at 17 and 13 respectively, they are surely capable of making the journey without mishap ?

Sounds to me as if your partner's ex is simply making things difficult for the sake of it and has given no good reason why he must only ever see them in England. I also think the comment about one to one time with their dad speaks volumes - she may as well just come right out with it and say she doesn't want them seeing you, their dad's new partner .... irrespective of the fact you are both sensitive to them spending time alone with their dad. Furthermore, their father is equally "entitled" to move on with his life and form a new relationship and it's wrong of her to make life more difficult for him because he's done so.

Unfortunately, there are some exes who are difficult for the sake of it. The current state of affairs is unnatural and isn't allowing the children to see their dad in a normal home environment when they can chill out, relax and join in with family stuff. Being taken out all day might sound like fun but having to be out all day, every day, day after day soon loses its appeal, and particularly so when the weather isn't good. It's not fair on anyone and a wicked waste of money when there is a perfectly reasonable alternative.

From my own experience of similar things though, regrettably, some women put their hatred of their ex above and beyond what's good for their children - i.e. allowing them to have a normal (or as near to normal as you can possibly get when parents are separated) relationship with both parents. IME, the fact that their dad is effectively forced to spend money he can't afford is seen as some sort of "revenge" for imagined slights and all the inconvenience he must also incur is an added bonus in the same vein.

Am not sure what you can do to change someone's mind when almost certainly she's simply being spiteful though (has she ever said why the kids can't fly ?) Perhaps your DH should try to encourage the children round about the idea of coming to Ireland, and about all the different things they can do there, in the hope they can then work on their mum.

This sort of needless obstruction really riles me.

cats, I think you'll find it's some parents of either gender who are difficult about contact after a relationship breaks down. Being a pain in the bum isn't confined to one sex. Far from it.

Midori, did your dh move to N Ireland after the relationship ended? It's harder to change things if them being in England is the default position, especially if the resident parent isn't keen.

What does your dh want and what do each of his children want?

I wonder how up to speed the children's mother is on current Northern Ireland politics. I find it hard to think it reasonable that a 17 + 13 year old should be prevented from flying unaccompanied [I flew to Northern Ireland as an unaccompanied child when I was 11]. On the other hand if the concern is more about terrorism and the vulnerability of children of currently serving soliders then I can see why she would prefer the children to not go there, but for their father to come to them.

(And tbh when my sister and I were teenagers, we'd have been quite capable of squabbling horribly at the airport, my sister one of us stalking off and refusing to get on the plane with the other...)

I agree with catsmother - it sounds entirely like needless obstruction to me. And given he is willing to go and collect them and fly with them and she still won't let them go, I can't see any good reason other than petty spite

It takes an hour or less to fly into Belfast from most of the UK. I'm sure a 17yo and 13 yo can contain themselves in public for that time, without battering each other.

Unless I've misread it - that already happens doesn't it ladybiscuit? I think the mother may have expressed a preference for the father visiting them in England but he does collect them and take them back to NI.

It's a bit of a bind though from her POV. Getting to the airport, parking miles away, hanging around for 2+ hours before they board and then her getting home again (especially if they live a couple of hours from an airport). Everytime dad wants them to come over it means a day wasted for her. Then coming home - someone has to meet them. Another few hours that have to be scheduled.

Not saying it's right one way or the other but if she doesn't like her ex-h it sounds like a right PITA.

Dad visiting them is more straightforward for her. How is staying there and taking them out more expensive than all that flying backwards and forwards?

If I'm reading the OP correctly, when the father goes to England he takes the children out all day every day. If the children were to visit him in NI they wouldn't get this level of attention - "a trip to the cinema or walking the dogs together" isn't quite the same.

What about compromise? Half of the visits are to England and half are to NI?

Hi Edam ..... I did generalise and say that "some exes are difficult for the sake of it". But then went on to say that in my experience, it was a woman who had been similarly spiteful and obstructive. Which is true ...... but I obviously appreciate that both sexes can lose sight of what's really important in such situations.

Hocus ..... I suspect it's cheaper, even with flights, for the kids to visit dad there because he wouldn't have to pay for meals out, overnight accommodation, and, he wouldn't be obliged to fill every waking hour with some sort of activity as there are all sorts of things which could be done at home. Eating out twice a day, even in a chain restaurant would soon mount up horribly.

I also personally feel that a bit of inconvenience for mum is hardly good enough reason for her to put her foot down. Again, it comes down to what's best, and most natural for the kids. I spent years meeting my ex en route with our son - so he wouldn't end up going to bed at some ungodly hour and/or lose out on time with his dad. Did I enjoy doing that ? ...... no, of course not, but I viewed it as part and parcel of ensuring my son still had some kind of relationship with his dad. Without my co-operation and help, that relationship would have been affected and ultimately, my son would have suffered most. My feelings towards my ex were a different issue to doing what I could to ensure that my son had as normal a childhood as possible.

Hi catsmother. Well, in my experience, it was my stepmother who was really difficult and my Dad who went along with it for the sake of peace. He is more to blame as he is our father IYKWIM but she was the prime mover... doesn't mean I automatically assume step-parents are in the wrong though, just mine was, ahem, tricky at times.

weirdly could she be scared of them flying over to you? They could then make the decision could they not, to not return? If she is having problems with DSD maybe she is concerned that by her coming to you, she'll not want to come back?

Do you accompany him on any of the trips? TBH at 17, the eldest is nearly of the age where she can make her own decisions, and the 12yo isnt far behind.

My dd1 has been flying to Belfast alone since she was 12 (Aer Arann flights, Ryanair wouldn't take under 14's alone). BUT I have a friend in Cork with 2 sds, who live in England. They are 17 and 14, the stepmum has to fly over, bring them back, then return them after a few days.(The dad is FAR too busy!) Their mum doesn't want them flying alone.