To feel completely unmotivated about going back to my 'big City job'

[Confusedfirsttimemum]

I am due back at work in the Spring. I work in a 'big City job' and have negotiated going back four days a week.

I have just done the really detailed maths on the cost of a nanny (and it will have to be a nanny. No way could I make it home for 6pm for a nursery. I need that extra hour to 7pm, and even that will require massive focus on my part/my DH's on his days). I've excluded childcare vouchers since I'm a higher rate taxpayer and they seem certain to be going for us in 12 months.

Unless I can find a nanny share or similar, it's going to cost me 3/4 of my salary to pay the nanny. I'll be working three days of my stressful, challenging job just to pay the nanny. One day a week will actually stay in our pocket.

Now I realise it's a bit sexist to calculate it this way and not spread the cost between mine and DH's salaries, but realistically he's not going to give up work, whereas me doing so is an option. I also realise that many people don't even have the option of deciding whether to go back to work and take home far less than 1/4 of their pay. I'm not trying to make out that my life is harder than anyone else's. I am grateful for what I have.

Also, don't get me wrong, one day's pay will still make a big difference to our household income. But it seems such a small amount for such a lot of work. I also can't help thinking that once you add in travel, plus all those takeaways and taxis because I'm running late/knackered it will end up a lot less.

So, AIBU that this makes me question whether work is worth it, or whether we should just tighten our belts and live on beans for a few years?

once you reach a certain earning threshold and if you're lucky enough to not 'need' to work then imo you don't work for the money when you're child is young at all, you work for the sake of keeping your hand in, CPD, staying up to date etc. and also because you like your career and don't want to leave it entirely.

however, if you DO want to leave it entirely after you have another child and don't like it that much then you have a decision to make that nobody else can make for you.

personally i think about the fact that i probably wont retire until i'm about 70ish so i have 40years of working life left in me (and have only done 10 due to a lot of study when i was younger)... so... it's about whether or not i want to take this is a change of direction or whether i want to keep on the ladder/treadmill so that i can continue to progress. i'm not that ambitious but i would like to be a bit more senior than i am now - to have more responsibility and autonomy and be more involved in the big decisions.

emsyj - But don't you think that potential employers know that you're likely to have about a 2 year gap and, if you're looking for a job at the end of maternity leave with number one, that's bound to count against you? (I realise they're not legally allowed to do that but...).

No worries about going off again from current job. They've had their pound of flesh over the years.

I take your point about exploring options anyway...

I used to do a long commute 1hr+each way and worked for a lge city bank. I essentially had to go down nursery route as really could'nt make it work financially with a nanny. They were long days in nursery for ds. In at 7.20am and finished at 6pm although for only 3 days a week. I realised it was becoming a nightmare working the pick-up in the evening ( childcare all my responsibiity as DH worked v long hours and most weeks away at some point on business) So I had one of the nursery staff bring him home for me when they finished, got him into the bath and organised his milk if necessary.

As little ones they generally have a key worker at nursery so he was with the same staff all the time. I would have gone down the nanny route but it would have taken up ALL my salary. But the arrangement as it worked out was very good (althoug it was a very good nursery)

Now ds is 6 and at school I run my own consultancy from home and work it around school so no commute and lots of flexibility.

Not sure if this helps
but thats my experience

You said: if DD is away from us for fairly long days, she deserves the continuity of 'a' person - a childminder or a nanny- for that whole time.

Hey, this only applies when they are a baby my dear. Rest assured once they get to a certain age they actually really benefit from being in a group and with company. I know how it breaks hearts to have babies in a Nursery environment, but trust me once they hit one and above they often love it as have company, stimulation and little friends.

dont feel guilty, you will have seen by the replies that we have many of been where you are.

Confusedfirsttimemum - I do not want to make this any harder for you but I strongly strongly advise going back 5 days or not at at all and I base that on the sad experience of two very high paid City women I know.

If you go back 4 days you will just end up working 5 days with people ringing you constantly on your day off. Better to just go back 5 days and get paid.

The other thing is that people (men and women) will autmatically view you as part timer and uncommited to your job. Very unfair but that is how people think. You will be passed over for promotion, bonus etc.

My DW would say the same and she worked in the City as did I. Its just the reality.

My advice is use your clearly very good CV and find a job that suits your time that is more 9 - 5 and go to work for 5 days a week.

Have you thought about working for a big FTSE 100 corporate - they like City experience in their Finance/Treasury departments?

Well yes I suppose so - I will have the same issue in 2011 as I don't want to return to my current job and I have concerns about how attractive a 31 year old mother of one will be to employers... Maybe if you plan another one very soon I would just put up with it until you have finished having children and then move. I am torn with the same issue really as I hate the job I have at the moment, there's not much around to move to and in some ways it would be easier if I came back here and tried to get pregnant with number 2 right away etc.

Gosh, I will have to join you in your trauma instead of helping!!!
I do think you have many many more options in London and surrounds and in some ways wish we had stayed there, although child care will be easier for us being so close to family and close friends so it's swings and roundabouts. Why is nothing easy??

confused, assuming you are a fee-earner, can you get PSL role at your current firm? It has more regular hours (perhaps you can go in earlier and be home at 6 reliably) and work from home on some days. It keeps your skills up-to-date on easier terms whilst you wait out the recession.

emsyj -Sorry, I seem to have brought you down with me!

ABetaDad - I take your point, and it's good advice. I think what I have clarified is that going back now will be more about 'keeping my hand in' than anything else. I'm not gunning for any promotions, and bonus is pretty transparent (billable hours all the way!). I do realise I'll have to be tough about they day off, but I've seen other people in my firm work it successfully. My hope is that if, say, I went in house in a couple of years, having worked part time in private practice wouldn't be seen so negatively.

blueshoes - I wish. The PSL roles have been snapped up by the women 5 years older than me who've had their children first. They're not going anywhere and, in my area of specialism, PSL vacancies externally are very rare. I have been keeping an eye out. It would have been such an obvious solution, but no joy.

ABetaDad

sorry I dont agree at all!!!!!! working 5 days is bloody tough when both parents work FT, it means that baby only sees Mum and Dad 2 days a week, it also puts so much pressure on the weekend. At least if she works 4 days she has one day to have special catch up time with baby and catch up on domestic admin so she can enjoy weekend

And I disagree if you are effective you can do your job in 4 days

sorry, you are entitled to an opinion but I feel very strongly about what you have advised. I think its bloody unhelpful advice in fact

if you can afford it, still pay the bills and not have the extras for a few years, do it, fuck the job.

I gave up my 'big city job' 7 years ago to look after my boys, I was like you and would have been working mostly for nursery and the extras.

I went back for 3 months and it was utterly miserable, I did not feel guilty at all, my first was happy at nursery, it was the sheer logistics of getting 2 and from work, I remember sitting on the train at Waterloo, which was delayed again, so I would be late yet again for nursery, I'd had a total shit work day, my boss was a witch, I was sweating from the hot tube ride, there was nothing in the fridge, DH was away and tears just started streaming down my face, I culd not stop them, this lovely lady passed me a tissue and I cried all the way to Putney.

I rant to nursery, he was the last one, I was charge £20 for being late and that was it, I chucked in my job, DH could just about support us. We had no family near that could help and DH's job took him away at least 2-3 nights a week, DS1 still woke up in the night until he was about 18 months and I was just beyond knackered.

The point was it was right for me and I was fortunate to be able to reply on DH salary to keep us going.

That was 7 years ago and I don't regret it. I have kept my hand in with freelance stuff here and there, and my boys are 7 and 2.5.

So just one perspective

from my recent experience...

I've been broken by my "big career" the pressure to work harder and longer to prove my commitment was absolutely destroying me, not in terms of energy levels but simply because it meant that two days a week i left before my dds were out of bed and returned after they were asleep
I placed far too much emphasis on my career and next promotion and not enough on time with my family
Now my company are acting unfairly and it is so grotesque that I don't want to return to my chosen sector let alone level

I'm far from saying that this will be your experience but I urge you to do what feels right now rather than plan for a future that might never materialise

I know in a while that I will feel able to return to a role at my level or start the company that I should have 5 yrs ago unshackled by the fear of leaving my "big career" behind
There are so many options open to us but time is inflexible and whilst I can build a company or regain a director role elsewhere I can never regain this time with my tiny dds

A different opinion but one that I hope helps

porcamiseria - I am sorry you feel that way. Just telling the OP what my experience is. I can perfectly well see why the OP wants to do 4 days a week - but the City does not work that way. You show total commitment or you don't work there. End of. Not fair, not good, but that is the life.

You are right that if you are effective you can get things done sin 4 days but that is not how pay works. You get paid for 4 days and people ring you up anyway. Exactly that situation with my friends I mentioned. They do just as much as the people who work 5 days but only get paid 4.

I have another female friend that works for a big FTSE 100 corporate as an accountant just as I suggested to the OP and she gets paid on a consultancy basis and does 3 days a week. It works well for her. Every time they ring her she bills 15 minutes and she gets 2 days off per week.

I should add that when me and DW decided to have children I offered and we agreed I woudl give up my City career so DW could continue with hers.

I took a job in academia. Much lower pay but 9 - 5 and 8 months a year. It worked for us and know very personally how hard this decision is for the OP.

confused, still got hope. Try to keep on nice terms with those PSLs in your firm. Be helpful to them. One of them might think of jacking it in or reducing their hours and look for a job share ... you never know. Always generally a good idea to network anyway, if you are thinking of changing jobs in the near future.

Have you factored in that your job pays your pension, NI contributions etc too?

It is fine to go in 4 days' a week as a fee-earner, if you have no promotion ambitions and are prepared to be contacted on your day off. But it does make you vulnerable in this economic climate not to be seen to be pulling your own weight.

The lip service is that it is no longer up-or-out. A few magic circle law firms have in recent years implemented alternative career tracks for associates that do not want to be on partnership track. And put in place programmes to retain female associates.

Things have changed, abeta. Query whether it is window-dressing ... but it buys the OP time.

Consider whether you actually enjoy your job or not eg. the social side of it, time to yourself, using your brain. I would go bonkers without my job- in fact, I would pay to do it!

Your assessment sounds very pessimistic: you could also find a nanny share, that might be nice for your LO to have a playmate. And do factor in childcare vouchers, as well as NI, pension etc. as others have said.

As regards commitment etc. FWIW my DH works four days a week in the City and has just been put forward for promotion. They love it, despite their initial misgivings: they pay him 80% of his salary, he works the same hours across the week, quids in for everyone. It depends very much on your manager and their manager, but it is not necessarily the case that PTers are looked down on.

I would return to your job for at least 3-4 months to see how you feel then. I have found it very refreshing to go back to work. I love my job (not dissimilar to yours) and do it 4 days a week, but I am lucky to be in a department where there are a number of other people working those hours and getting promoted etc. Is paying back your maternity pay all or nothing at 12 months, or if you did return for 6 would you need to pay back less?

blusshoes - I agree with what you say. I question too whether it is window dressing.

Unfortunatley, the label 'partnership track' defines whether someone is a 'serious player' or not in the minds of everyone in a law/consultancy/accountancy firms. Discrimination happens in the minds of individuals who decide pay, bonus, promotion and the nice family friendly HR Policy is mostly designed to fend of sex discrimination cases.

Sorry to be so down on this issue and very sorry if I have said too much but I have been there as has DW and every single one of our female City friends.

I do agree the OP should go back 4 days but she (or her DH) should immediately start looking around for more family friendly jobs.

It sounds as though you should look into a nanny share, are you in London? There are LOADS around if so, probably some in the streets near you (when i was looking there were 2 on our street!)

Go back and suss out how it is. If its awful you can always leave but you are giving yourself options.

Get pregnant and go on maternity leave again and assess your options.

By that time it might be right to move in house etc.

There you go, now if only it were that simple in reality ......

ABetaDad
I have also female friends (not in the city) who tell me that doing a 4 day week means they end up squashing 5 days into 4 and find it stressful. Some choose to reduce their hours and go to 3 days, others just said they might as well get paid for doing 5 and went full time. I spoke to lots of women in my industry about having children before I got pregnant so that I could get as much info and ideas as I could (I didn't know mumsnet existed then) So I know you got jumped on as unhelpful but I support your comments from the experiences shared with me.
There have been others on the going back to work thread who have shared the kinds of things OP has said here and there are some good words of advice there too. I would also like to say it is good for a change to see how MNet can be full of people who genuinely want to help and not criticise. I hop it works out for Confused- at the end of the day, it is what she thinks will be best for her and her family

Confused have you looked at job openings in the civil service? There are legal services in all departments, the pay is pretty good once you're up at the mid- to high-levels, and it's really family friendly. There's also lots of enthusiasm about things like conditioned hours, 9-day fortnights, and job-sharing.

I've just stopped working because it was so exhausting, and tbh I really miss it. It's the social side, the status (I don't mean being important, but just having an identity that's not to do with the other people in your family), and the independence that I miss. I plan to return after only a short break if I can (we have just moved to a different country so it's a bit complicated but I think will work out). Also, when I was working I loved hiring pt staff. I found them incredible value for money as they were so focused on getting things done that their output was about equivalent to the ft staff, who were more laid back and took more coffee breaks etc. A job share can also be brilliant as you get 2 sets of ideas, and 2 management styles.

I think it might be important, too, to have your DH on standby by at least one day a week - understood he can't give up his job, or go part time or even flexible hours, and that's fine - but is there any way he could square it with his bosses so that one day a week it's understood that he ALWAYS finishes at 5, or 6? - early enough to come home and help you with bedtime, collection from childminder/nursery (if you end up going down that road instead of nanny). Or one day a week maybe he could go in an hour later - go in at 10 or something, so that you could have a little lie in and he could deal with breakfast, getting DD up, all of that.

Even that hour a week will make a big difference to you - not just for the practical help but also because it will keep you a team - both taking responsibility for the family as well as for earning money. He has to try, even if just a little, to make his job fit around his family too. Not fair for you to have to take all the burden on your shoulders. Not fair on him either, if you don't explain this and give him an open door to step up and help out.