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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Art Club 'by invitation only' is a bit wrong?

141 replies

MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 12:57

Every term my DD's junior school send out a list of clubs which the children can take part in either at lunchtimes or after school. The list is varied and includes sailing club, engineering club, wildlife club etc and the teachers give up their spare time to lead these clubs. I think this is fantastic and my DD has loved taking part in some of them.

However, Art Club was included in the list. It stated afterwards (by invitation only).

DD came home yesterday in tears because 2 children in her class had been chosen to attend art club and she wasn't. I told her to speak to the art teacher and let her know that the next time some spaces came up could she please be considered as this is something she would really like to do. She said it doesn't work like that.

So I rang the school secretary to find out why it was by invitation only. She told me it is designed only for children who are 'gifted and talented' in art and no one else.

I'm a bit annoyed about that. Not the fact that my DD wasn't chosen but the fact they are basically creating an elitist group of children and separating them from the rest of the class who are deemed 'not good enough' to join the art club.

Surely if you're 7 and you like doing art then you should be encouraged?

OP posts:
Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 15:48

Has anyone ever run a club, had a complete pain in the arse join it, been given warnings and the like and finally had to ask the child to leave the club?
And then had the parent complaining and saying that you have no right to do that and are discriminating?
It's a lot of work for no pay or time in lieu, and can be a wonderful thing.
But I don't have more than 10 in my Science club and 16 in the Art club. Because that's all I can manage and do it right, and so there are waiting lists for Art.

Openbook · 18/12/2009 16:12

AMerryScot. What I meant was that good teachers like running clubs and like to be inclusive and would probably prefer to run first come first served clubs rather than upset kids. I'm so pissed off with the pressures that teachers are under - having been one. Stories like this one are red rag to a bull to me - wind me up and watch me go!

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 16:16

First come first served?
But why?
That often means that it would be the same children every time, the ones with the organised, fluent English-speaking parents who pick them up from school, rummage through the bookbag and hand in the signed form before leaving the premises. Those that know how things usually work.
I use a hat myself, put the names in and pick them out as a lottery. Even if I get a PITA, there's no changing it!

AMerryScot · 18/12/2009 16:16

I agree that good teachers enjoy running clubs, but not just for the sake of it. They do it to inspire and extend the interests of target children.

If a club is a free for all, then it is little more than babysitting.

Openbook · 18/12/2009 16:29

Target children! Your definition of a club really is different from mine. Goblinchild, I agree that there may be better ways of being inclusive than first come etc. that was a bit imprecise. I am so sad about what has happened to Primary Education. No, i really am going to go and do something useful before i get myself in a state.

Original poster
MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 16:32

Wearthefoxhat- that's exactly it.

OP posts:
DoesntChristmasDragOn · 18/12/2009 16:40

"agree enthusiastically that an Art/science/juggling club for all would be a wonderful idea and that if they can persuade parents to run it, the school would support them whole-heartedly. And I leave the children turning on their parents with delight and screams of 'Oh Yes mummy, you could do XYZ...'"

What a fabulous idea!

NoChristmasMojo · 18/12/2009 16:45

Yes & No

sometimes the funding for clubs comes from particular budgets.

It maybe that some of the G&T budget has been allocated for this club so it would therefore be unreasonable for the school to then "open" the club to all.

I do think it is unfair that there is not an alternative even if it is planned for later in the school year. And it is a shame too that everyone was informed about this club- as already mentioned parents have to be kept informed about EVERYTHING these days, a few years back only those children & parents involved would of needed to know. Saving a lot of upset!

I was also brought up to believe that "life isnt fair" and this is just one of those facts of life that you just have to learn to accept as a child & get on with it.

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 16:47

Let's remember that these children already have access to a full curriculum in school time, where they all have the opportunity to do all subjects and receive feedback, praise, work on the wall, merits and the rest.
So it's not as if not being on the list for G&T art excludes any child from the chance to join in and have fun, any more than not being in the netball team prevents you from having the chance to do PE for two hours a week.

'Target children! Your definition of a club really is different from mine. Goblinchild"

I think you're possibly muddling me up with AMerryScot. Or not. Oh well.

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 16:49

So why not run the club yourself, with like-minded friends?
Then you can have some first-hand experience to back up you opinions.

cece · 18/12/2009 16:55

My DD's school has an invitation only art club too.

I personally don't have a problem with this. It is no different than having a football team chosen for ability.

Like the OP's school, they chose different children each term so different children do get a chance. For instance DD wasn't chosen in Year 3 but her classteacher recommended her for it in Year 4. (TBH I wouldn't have minded if she hadn't been chosen - although I think she would have!)

I was very pleased when she told me a certain boy was at the art club after she had been to her first one. He is often labelled as 'naughty' and it is lovely that his talent has been recognised and encouraged in this way imo.

easyoptionwoman · 18/12/2009 18:16

Bloody hell - how can they tell who is gifted at age 7? Art can encompass more than drawing. I thought the whole point was to try different materials and express yourself. What do they do when you're 12 and not "gifted" at anything - invite you to commit suicide?

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 18:38

What do you do when you are gifted and everyone expects you to be normal and fit other peoples' concepts of what a 7 year old should be like?
When you get called odd and weird and no one seems to understand what you are going on about? When you see or understand things that even the adults around you don't?
It can be bloody hard being the odd one out, and so if you are given the chance to be with others who are a bit like you, it's an oasis.

Morloth · 18/12/2009 18:40

I think the only problem I would have with it was that it was advertised (sorry was it made clear in the list that it was invitation only?).

Agree with other posters that you should ask the school about organising an open club yourself.

cornishgal · 18/12/2009 20:14

It's ridiculous. People who AREN'T G and T can still enjoy art - it;s not quantum physics for christ's sake. besides, how can they tell at 7 - maybe a chance to go to the club would bring out their latent talent. Is this s state school - I'm shocked, really shocked. It stinks, if you ask me. Hardly EVERY CHILD MATTERS, is it?

islandofsodor · 18/12/2009 20:38

Perhaps the school orchestra shoudl be open to all, regardless of how good a child is on an instrument.

dd has been learning the recorder in school but hte recorder club in juniors is "by invitation only". In fact theer are a few clubs that are. As longh as there is a raneg of other clubs and there is opportunity within the curriculum to do art I really don't see a problem.

PixieOnaChristmasTree · 18/12/2009 20:54

Is your real problem that your DD isn't 'gifted at art'?

If she had been invited, would you make a fuss about this? I doubt it very much.

Quattrocento · 18/12/2009 21:03

I've been thinking about this issue myself with reference to the DCs junior schools. All the major sports clubs are by invitation only - so hockey, netball, swimming, rugby etc. I think this is almost reasonable, on the grounds that sporting achievements really matter to the schools. But not entirely, because they do make mistakes which are almost impossible to recover from, because the chosen develop far faster because they have extra time and tuition etc

But the schools do the same for the orchestral and choral groups, which seems entirely ridiculous.

So I agree with the OP

ineedalifelaundry · 18/12/2009 21:05

This is NOT the same as the football team or the orchestra / recorder club, because the football team and orchestra will be called upon to perform, competitively and in public, and therefore it's perfectly valid to pick the best players / musicians in the school.

Art group won't be doing any performance art, I presume.

I think it's awful that the op's DD has been excluded from an activity she would really enjoy - and that she knows she isn't 'good' enough for it. And I agree that age 7 is very young to write anyone's artistic skill off as average

PixieOnaChristmasTree · 18/12/2009 21:07

No, but they might be putting on displays.

And just because your talent doesn't contribute to matches etc, does that mean it should be ignored?

If she wants to do art, then why not do it with her at home?

seeker · 18/12/2009 21:11

Our school has a Singer's Club which is invitation only.It's for people who have some singing ability,a nd they do quite complicated music. Should this be allowed? Or shout it be open to all, and so the ones who can sing would miss out on the more challenging misic they work on.

cece · 18/12/2009 21:15

OP I am not sure if you would like my DD's sports day. They have heats prior to the day and only the best get to compete in the races in the afternoon. In the morning everyone takes part in a carousel of activities.

TheProvincialLady · 18/12/2009 21:22

I hope they have counsellors on standby cece

I am getting a distict flavour of 'art isn't really a serious thing, anyone can do it' from this thread.

Openbook · 18/12/2009 21:24

Oh - you said the wrong thing there seeker. I did ten cracking musical shows without auditions. We auditioned for solo parts and got wonderful performances from very talented children. The chorus was open for anyone who would commit to the hard work. I cannot tell you what these shows meant to us all - they were terrific community experiences.

cece · 18/12/2009 21:30

TPL 'art isn't really a serious thing, anyone can do it'

Discuss.

I can feel an essay topic coming on.

I didn't mind so much about the sports day but for the sprint race only 8 boys and 8 girls per year group raced. Out of a year group of 90.

I personally don't have a problem with recognising and encouraging talent. It raises the game for everyone surely. As I said earlier DD didn't get chosen for art club in year 3. She put a lot of effort into her art, it improved alot. Then in Year 4 she got chosen. I don't have a problem with that.

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