Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Original poster

to think that Art Club 'by invitation only' is a bit wrong?

141 replies

MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 12:57

Every term my DD's junior school send out a list of clubs which the children can take part in either at lunchtimes or after school. The list is varied and includes sailing club, engineering club, wildlife club etc and the teachers give up their spare time to lead these clubs. I think this is fantastic and my DD has loved taking part in some of them.

However, Art Club was included in the list. It stated afterwards (by invitation only).

DD came home yesterday in tears because 2 children in her class had been chosen to attend art club and she wasn't. I told her to speak to the art teacher and let her know that the next time some spaces came up could she please be considered as this is something she would really like to do. She said it doesn't work like that.

So I rang the school secretary to find out why it was by invitation only. She told me it is designed only for children who are 'gifted and talented' in art and no one else.

I'm a bit annoyed about that. Not the fact that my DD wasn't chosen but the fact they are basically creating an elitist group of children and separating them from the rest of the class who are deemed 'not good enough' to join the art club.

Surely if you're 7 and you like doing art then you should be encouraged?

OP posts:

misdee · 18/12/2009 13:26

surely its on the list, so those that get an invite, their parents are forewarned what day it will be on.

swampster · 18/12/2009 13:30

YANBU and I would be really pissed off if this happened to my DSs. Art is one thing that everyone who wants to participate should be able to participate in and get a great deal out of. Surely any child who was truly gifted and talented at art would benefit from being around their 'less able' peers. It is all so subjective in any case. I'm quite sure someone like Damien Hirst wouldn't have been invited to join an elistist after-school art club - after school marketing, maybe.

swampster · 18/12/2009 13:31

They really shouldn't have listed art club as a choice if it wasn't one. Your poor DD.

AMerryScot · 18/12/2009 13:33

Maybe the teacher is giving up her personal time to tutor 8 G&T pupils in a calm atmosphere rather than be rushed off her feet with 30 all-comers.

Maybe the school doesn't have a budget for an open art club.

wearthefoxhat · 18/12/2009 13:42

But surely art is one of the only subjects that all children can be encouraged?
At the age of 7, I really can't believe that children show so much talent over the others?
Art is so subjective.
I was considered crap at all things arty throughout school (according to my teachers), it's only now I'm in my 30's that I have the confidence to actually think that I am a good artist, and the waiting list for commissions is growing, which is proof that I do have talent.
Such a pity that so much potential is stamped out at such an early age

Original poster

MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 13:46

WTFH- I totally agree. Surely other subjects like Maths, Literacy, etc are things in which you ability can more easily be measured.

Art is just fun when you're little, all children like drawing and painting and making things.

OP posts:

TheProvincialLady · 18/12/2009 13:47

My DH runs a lunchtime art club at his junior school that is also by invitation only and just for G&T children. He is the only teacher with the skills to run the club and it would be no use to anyone if the club took anyone as there would be no real teaching going on, just a room with children drawing etc.

Elitism doesn't come into it as often the children who struggle academically or socially who excel at art.

Finding out that you can't do everything is not a bad thing IMO. Maybe you could encourage her to try exra hard at art in school and create things at home to take in, assuming she really is keen and not just put out not to be able to join the club IYSWIM?

TheProvincialLady · 18/12/2009 13:49

The by invite only thing is not DH's choice btw.

deaddei · 18/12/2009 13:49

I do think your school seems to be offering a range of clubs far and beyond an average school- I'd be grateful your child has so much choice!

edam · 18/12/2009 13:51

Agree with you that it was wrong to put the G&T Art Club on the list together with general school clubs.

ds's school has a general club but only 15 spaces for potentially 90 children (whole of key stage 1). They do it by lottery and sadly ds has missed out twice now. But at least it's fair, everyone has the same chance.

Would be interested to know how on earth a primary-age child can qualify as G&T in Art - I just don't understand what qualities they would have to show? How would G&T stand out from generally being good at art?

Original poster

MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 13:53

It also seems bizarre to me that they pick 2 children from an entire class who are G&T and offer them a place. What if there's 3? Or 6?

OP posts:

Hulababy · 18/12/2009 13:54

YABU (IMO). It is fine to have a G&T art club, just like it is fine to have sports clubs for the best players in the team, and orchestra for the best musicians, etc.

Last year I ran a breakfast club which was inviatation only - not G&T, but for children who were borderline with their literact in Y1/2. It was by invitation only, based on teacher assessments. Is this also wrong?

My club was still included in the normal club list for school. I think schools have to list everything they do, so makes sense to keep all extra curricular activities together.

tethersjinglebellend · 18/12/2009 13:59

"Art is so subjective"

Yes, but the National Curriculum for art isn't. Children are levelled and assessed in the same way they are for any subject.

I am an art teacher (secondary), and agree it is a real shame that children who are keen on art are not encouraged enough- however, the teacher is certainly giving up his/her own time in order to run this class, and the opportunity to focus on the G&T students is one that hardly ever happens. The school has identified them as a target group.

It should never have gone on the list, or been made known in class; this has led to much disappointment for a lot of the children keen on art. YANBU to be annoyed about this.

It is a subject to be studied, rather than a fun activity though- not that those two things are mutually exclusive, but art is often seen as 'fun' and nothing more; that is, having little academic value. It is not just about drawing/painting/sculpture, it is about critical thinking skills and risk taking. This is often harder to teach in a mixed ability group- not impossible, but I can see the thinking in targeting the G&T students in order to extend them.

And it will most certainly be related to an OFSTED requirement.

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 14:36

I run a G&T science club, as well as a 'open to all' Art one.
If provision is made for SEN at one end of the bell curve, then so should the children at the far end. It's not just the activities in G&T groups, the level of thinking, discussion and understanding is exceptional.
My response to whinging children and/or parents is to agree enthusiastically that an Art/science/juggling club for all would be a wonderful idea and that if they can persuade parents to run it, the school would support them whole-heartedly. And I leave the children turning on their parents with delight and screams of 'Oh Yes mummy, you could do XYZ...'

tethersjinglebellend · 18/12/2009 14:40

Goblinchild

Openbook · 18/12/2009 14:45

This is part of the rubbish that schools feel pressured in to these days. Tick a box and don't care if it's right for the children. I hate this! Not teacher's fault - vile system that makes her feel she must! She prob. hates it too - if she's any good.

AMerryScot · 18/12/2009 14:50

tethers...end,

I am a Science teacher but I agree with you about Art being a challenging subject to be taken seriously.

All kids have the potential to be creative but that is not the same as being an artist who continuously evaluates their work etc.

A club for less talented children can easily be run by motivated parents, rather than a teacher with aptitude and training in the subject. In order to nurture, extend and develop talents, it is fair for G&T artists to have their own small class of likeminded people.

My questions is 'should there not be any invitation-only clubs, including those at the other end of the spectrum?'

Hopefully · 18/12/2009 14:50

"I speak as a mother whose child's only noticable gift is fidgeting"

ROFL Coldtits

Original poster

MarkStretch · 18/12/2009 14:51

Goblinchild, I'm sorry you see this as whinging. I don't feel like I'm whinging, more raising an issue I feel should be discussed.

I understand it must be an Ofsted issue, it's a shame the school have handled it this way really. I love the school and admire the amount of clubs they run but this could probably have been dealt with in a different way which didn't affect the other children in the class.

OP posts:

AMerryScot · 18/12/2009 14:51

I imagine that she genuinely wants to run the club, openbook. The communication method may be a little forced.

AMerryScot · 18/12/2009 14:52

What is your issue, Markstretch?

That there is an exclusive club that your DD is on the outsid of?

Or that they don't have a general art club?

Goblinchild · 18/12/2009 14:57

Organise the parents to run an art club Markstretch. Then you will have turned your suggestion into a practical and useful action. Or just keep pointing out that you think it's unfair that able children should be catered for as a distinct group.

wearthefoxhat · 18/12/2009 15:00

As far as I've gathered, the issue is that the club was on the general clubs list, so her dd decided she would like to join, to be told that it was only for G&T (I still read that as gin & tonic) so was dissapointed and probably felt she was crap at art because she wasn't picked.
If it hadn't been on the list, there wouldn't have been an issue.
Is that it?

RainRainGoAway · 18/12/2009 15:01

I agree with the suggestion that you should start to run a 'free for all' art club if you feel your dc would enjoy it.
I do love the ideas of lots of tiny Tracy Emins. My DD does quite a good sculpture of an 'unmade bed'.

crazycat34 · 18/12/2009 15:42

I run an after school music group.

I really enjoy it but it is something I have to plan for, on top of the ridiculous amount of paperwork I already have to do, something I have to evaluate and something I have to fill forms in for at the end of term.

It's something I have to give up my time for (both when it happens and in preparation for it) which means I have to make up the time elsewhere (usually at home when I could be doing stuff with my own children!)

So I have to restrict the number of children to 8 because after teaching a whole class all day long, I'd rather have 8 children who want to be there, are going to turn up every week, practise at home and produce something we can all be proud of at the end of it.

It might sound harsh, but I am a person and not a commodity and sometimes life just isn't fair.

Sounds like they probably advertised the club as a means of showing what extra curricular opportunities the school provides. They would have had to discriminate on something.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5 6

Swipe left for the next trending thread