In thinking that, look, my DD is bloody well shy, not willful or stubborn thankyou very much

[ijustwanttoaskaquestion]

This is my DDs first term at school. I know im probably being Pfb (even though shes my second) but i just get a bit of a funny feeling about her teacher. Firstly, she seems lovely and everyone raves about how good she is. The teaching assistant is lovely too.

But my daughter really struggles with one to one. She is very shy, although once she comes out of her shell she is as loud and in yer face as the rest of them. Its just that whenver adults adress her, in her face i guess, she goes very shy, will say NO and look down or run and hide behind my legs and not come out for ANYTHING. It took her ages to warm to her key worker at nursery although he said that she would still have her moments when she didnt want to talk.

So, fast forward to the first parents evening and the first comment her teacher makes is - She is very willful isnt she?? Now to be fair, DD is actually quite stubborn if she doesnt want to do anything - although i was a bit to have this as the first thing the teacher said to me - she explained that DD wojuldnt be persuaded into line etc and that she would just look down and say no. I explained that actually this is shyness and that shes always been like that, that hopefully she will grow out of it. Anyway, i didnt want to take it personally as it is early days.

Moving on a bit and I am getting messages in her reading book that she doesn't want to sit and talk about books etc with the teacher. (happier with TA tbh) So i have tried to encourage DD without making an issue of it - but i wrote in her book about her problems with one-one and asking if this was a problem at her age - the message i got back was "well yes, it is a problem because how can we assess her if she wont talk to us!" There are always exclamation marks after these negative comments and this really riles me for some reason. Its like the teacher thinks my DD is being naughty.

To be honest, im really upset about this - my DP says that i shouldnt take any notice but i dont want DDs shyness to hinder her in school. He is very much of the school, well DD will come on in her own time - yes, so am i, but i do want to work with the school to overcome any potential problems.

Thing is, i just cant shake this feeling that the teacher doesnt 'like' DD, which i know is really silly but its there and its making me very defensive.

This is an excellent school (by far the best reputation in our area) but it does seem to have high academic expectations. I sent her there because its a catholic school.

I am all over the place about this - part of me wants to march up to the school and say, look here, ive told you she is shy, get off her bloody case but of course i know that would be the wrong thing to do.

What SHOULD i do?? these are messages in the school contact book and like email, maybe im misunderstanding the slant of it.

Yes, meet and chat to the teacher. Whatever inherent dislike you have of the teacher you need to overcome or manage to ignore - it's a very long time until next September and a new teacher.

My best friend has a DS who sounds very similiar. And yes, while the friend has talked about his shyness a lot, to me it has looked like wilful disobedience and a quite determined decision to not join in or speak. But I trust my friend's judgement, and so should your teacher - but please be aware that it's very easy to confuse the two issues. I can understand why the teacher confuses shyness with wilfulness.

But if Ijustwantto's DD is happy with the TA I'd say the problem lays with the teacher.

sticky - The mother does indeed know her daughter at home, she does not know how her daughter behaves at school, the example she gave of "shy" behaviour at school did not IMO amount to "shy" behaviour so much as defiance. There are many children who are shy and can't won't speak to adults, there are also many children who display different behaviours at home and school. The example the OP gave showed a level of defiance.

Cory - Again a very common reaction in children of that age and dealt with very differently by the teacher. IME hiding under a table, not talking to a teacher/adult are different behaviours from saying "no" and refusing to do as asked. I
would guess the OP's daughter probably is both shy and a bit defiant and these are both coming out at school.

I help out in dd's reception class and these 4 year olds are tired - a few of them are finding lining up difficult, wandering into the middle of the line and forgetting to join at the end, and one said "I don't want to!" when I asked her to read. I just gently tried again later when she didn't feel so interrupted from playing.

My 3.5yo dd is both stubborn and shy- she sounds very similar to the Op's dd.

She is getting better but she is like a Rabbit caught in the headlights when an adult addresses her- she simply freezes. When she was younger and we were out and about she would freeze if people walked near to us or passed us- shopping centres were a nightmare- she would just refuse to walk or talk. Othertimes she would start to cry if she wasn't right next to me and she saw people approaching.

I think she is not so bad as she gets over it quite quickly once she gets to know the people and the environment- saying that it has taken her a whole term to start to chat and volunteer information at nursery.

I was also extremely shy at school but also extremely compliant. Being shy definitely ruined school for me so I don't want dd to suffer the same.

I think the teacher should be more understanding TBH

but Cory hididng under a table when introdued to a new sitation at 4 is fairly normal. I guess that he wasn't still doing that a month or two into the term.

Saying "no" when asked to do something at 4 is also fairly normal. Using shyness as an excuse for defiance though may not be helpful in the long run in helping her enjoy school and interact more.

Whether the problem is caused by shyness or wilfullness is though fairly academic. What is important is that something is stopping her from fully enjoying her time at school and that is what needs to be looked at.
Let the teacher help you.
Talk to her and work together to make this better now rather than just hoping she will grow out of it.

ijust, she sounds just like my dd2, she was exactly the same when she started reception, her teacher just didn't get that she was shy and kept moaning at me. I was lucky that when they split the class in the January she got the other reception teacher, never had a problem after that, it was the teacher that was the problem in her case. She just needed encouragement rather than forcing. I found talking to the teacher a waste of time, she'd obviously never been shy herself. Dd2's a gobby 10 year old now and nowhere near as shy as she was.

Thankyou for all the helpfull and reassuring posts. Cory, my DD pretty much hid when we went to meet the teacher on a one to one when she started, but on the day they stayed, all the children to play - she was fine. She is just overwhelmed by being singled out.

She is relatively confident otherwise, but will think about some confidence building - her dad was apparently difficultly shy at school and struggled as a result so i clearly want to solve this problem.

Londonone, where the hell do you get off posting like that?? Im perfectly willing to accept that my DD can be stubborn - and if i say that this behaviour is due to shyness, then i think, as her mother, im the one best qualified to comment on this. That and HER teacher, whom i clearly need to speak to about this problem to establish what the problem is, because obviously the approach to put it right is going to depend on that. So thanks for your input but with the greatest respect - stick it up your arse! Hows that for fatuous!

Oh and i would hasten to add, that i dont actually think that the teacher is the problem, as she has had similar problems with her key worker at nursery. As i said, i just dont want the teacher to think DD is being "defiant" when she is actually really struggling with the situation. If i said that she said NO when askeed to get in line, then i misrepresented, the teacher said that DD needed to be left to join the group rahter than taken by the hand etc. That was the first thing her teacher did, try to take her by the hand and i was like, oh oh, here we go - i think she is happier with the TA because she doesnt obviously have to get so in her face.

I will speak to the teacher and be lead by what she thinks, however i think it is absolutely right for me to point the shyness issue out - either that or my DD has been defiant since she was born!!

The irony being, the teacher is blatantly shy!! lol

will definately have a word with her - DD seems really happy at school though so hopefully no big problems - wonder if the contact book isnt the best place to have the conversation

Ijustwantto - the messages in the contact book may well be the teacher just letting you know that she's been unable to read with your DD and why (maybe hoping you'd do some extra reading with her? or speak to her?)- as a reception teacher then thats what I would do if a little one wouldn't read for some reason. Completely agree that the teacher should be finding the best way to handle your DD but as others have said with 30 odd kids it can be hard and it sounds like she is trying different things if she realised that holding her hand didn't work etc.

From the teacher's POV, it can be very frustrating if you have to get the class lined up for assembly or whatever and 1 or 2 refuse to join the group - understanding its hard for them and sympathising doesn't make you any less late for wherever you're going and its the teacher who gets the black look from the head as they have kept everyone waiting. Also, I had to try and read with each child twice a week for 10 minutes, which took up huge amounts of time - if children didn't/wouldn't read then it delayed everything, which used to stress me out as there was always so much to fit into the timetable - and at the end of the day they need to learn to read! I did try not to let this stress be translated into how I dealt with the children though.

I do find that some children prefer the TA's - they are often more mumsy (huge stereotyping perhaps, but schools I've taught at then teachers were mostly young without children and TA's were there cos it fitted in with their children's holidays) and are able to spend time cuddling at the back while the teacher had to teach the rest of the class.

mmmmm...not sure any of that is helpful, but if its a big issue then could you play lining up games with your DD where you get all her cuddly toys in a line and then she has to be quick and join on the end - then after a while of playing say if she can do that at school you'll give her a sticker? Also keep reading with your DD every night and maybe she'll be more willing to read with the teacher?

Londonone, where the hell do you get off posting like that?? Im perfectly willing to accept that my DD can be stubborn - and if i say that this behaviour is due to shyness, then i think, as her mother, im the one best qualified to comment on this. That and HER teacher, whom i clearly need to speak to about this problem to establish what the problem is, because obviously the approach to put it right is going to depend on that. So thanks for your input but with the greatest respect - stick it up your arse! Hows that for fatuous!>>>>>>

Op, You posted in AIBU and asked for opinions, which londoneone gave, not rudely. You are the one being very rude in this reply.
A childs mother does not automatically always know everything about a child and why they do what, especially in school when you are not there. Many parents will make excuses for bad behaviour, for many reasons, and many will disagree with teachers assessment of their child. Teachers tend to be quite good at assesing children though, having much more experience than most parents. Your DD's teacher maybe wrong, but equally so may you.

If you don't want differing opinions don't post, and certainly not in AIBU. Telling a poster to stick it up theie arse as they differ in opinion to you is Not On.

I am 41, I have a professional career, I still hate being singled out and the room looking at me!

I was the same all through school. I did languages and was fine with comprehension and writing, but if I had to stand up and speak....well forget it. I remember still the awful parent's evenings!

I am still like this! I have to meet new people in my job all the time. I have learnt skills to deal with it, but it is not a natural thing.

I can sit in a meeting with VIPs and if someone asked me a question, even a really challenging one, that would be no problem, but if you asked me to stand up and give a presentation to those same people I would be a quivering wreck.

It MUST be a personality thing. OP you would probably do better teaching your dc strategies to deal with it than demanding that others treat her in a "special" way....

the teacher is a professional. whether she 'likes' your dd or not is pretty irrelevant. you say you have been through this with other people, and your DD gets over it. won't that be what happens here?

blaming the teacher is a dodgy road to go down...if your child picks up on it, they may become more defiant, no?

Agree with poo - londonone was putting her point of view across and I don't feel it was done rudely.

Not pointing at the op in particular, but some parents do seem to make excuses for their childs poor behaviour.

from personal experience with ds I have found labelling him as shy and telling people he was shy when he hid under the table/behind my leg was a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. The more I said it the more we both (me and ds) believed it. Saying he was shy was like saying his behaviour (not saying hello to adults, not joining in) was acceptable/excusable.

Eventually decided he was less shy and more unsociable and focussed in on him being more sociable and less rude and that these behaviours were unacceptable and it worked better for us.

Saying he was shy was almost praising him and encouraging the behaviour and holding him back from being independant (ds is a PFB).

We (me and dh) stopped using the "shy" word, and with gentle encouragement, ds realised he was being preceived as unfriendly & rude and he made noticable efforts to change (although it did take time).

OP, you know your dd best, is this a possible scenerio for her?

You are not alone. We have the exact same problem and dilemma (ignore the teacher's hurtful comments/talk to her).. Dd is very shy and takes her a long time to feel comfortable around new people. While I think shyness is something we need to address in a way that is not so obvious to her, I think the teachers are being very unreasonable. When I saw similar comments on her book, my first instinct was to go to school and remind her that not all children are the same and it is her job to un-shy her. I think dd feels that her teacher does not like her and hence continues to resist her. The teacher complaining about her shyness in front of her is not helping either. I am so annoyed with her but I feel that if I escalate this, she will resent my daughter. Sorry no solutions here but just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. Hoping that the problems will go away as they settle and change teachers.

Do you have any practical suggestions for what it is you would like the teacher to do differently, OP?

Ideally, I mean? Is what you want (and probably what you do at home) is for the teacher to wait for your daughter to join the line in her own time when she feels ready and happy to do it without the teacher chivvying her along, as this will make her feel more secure?

The thing is, it really isn't practical for 29 children and their teacher all to hanging about in the playground for five minutes until your daughter decides that she is happy to join the line.

Part of the bit adjustment needed when you start school is the realisation that you are not in fact the centre of the world, and your needs cannot always take presidence over the needs of the group.

It's a tough lesson to learn, especially if you're only four and if the ways in which your shyness have manifested itself have up to now always been indulged.

However, it is a vital lesson and as other posters have already said, perhaps the best thing you can do for your daughter is to help her find strategies to cope with following explicit instructions etc.

But when you do talk to the teacher, if you have some practical suggestions (that will not negatively impact on the rest of the class) for her about what your daugter responds well to, I'm sure she'd be very grateful to take them on board.

I have posted on AIBU for quite some time and am quite capable of hearing things that i dont want to hear or disagree with. However i thought that londonones comments were really harsh and uncalled for. Talking about my DD having her own agenda etc - shes four years old FGS!! So i wont be apologising, but i dont bear a grudge

I am definately not one of those mums who wont work with the school, i will - i was hoping that by asking if this was a problem in her book, the teacher was going to say that hopefully she would get over it - having seen it, im sure, many times, but she didnt and it upset me.

I just want DD to be happy at school, no more, no less. DD1 wasn't and i always ALWAYS took the teachers side and its something i have lived to regret.

Not my fight, ijustwanttoaskaquestion, but to be honest, "stick it up your arse!" strikes me as far more "harsh and uncalled for" than anything londonone said.

As far as I can see, she took the time to asnswer your post in a thoughtful and detailed way, offering you some practical suggestions.

You don't have to agree with what she says, of course, but I don't think that you were very gracious about it.

perhaps she merely takes after her mother then....

Wow! Must remember never to give the wrong flavour advice to you OP

FWIW children can be shy and defiant. DS#2 is. In his desperation to not be singled out or be seen as 'wrong' at school he can be very defiant. What do you think the teacher should do? Perhaps a further meeting would be productive.

Trying to persuade your dd to line up, im assuming the teacher is saying something along the lines of 'can you come and line up now please'?

If the teacher is posing it as a question rather than an instruction, then your dd probably feels she has an option and is replying 'no' because she doesnt want to go and line up. She is not being defiant she is being honest.

"I just want DD to be happy at school, no more, no less. DD1 wasn't and i always ALWAYS took the teachers side and its something i have lived to regret."

Just a thought, ijustwanttoaskaquestion, but could it be that you are playing out the negative scenarios you experienced with your first daughter here, thus making you resistant to entertaining any possibility that the teacher may have a point?

If your stance is that always taking the teachers "side" (as an aside, I'm not sure that's helpful terminology. You and the school need to be working together, and - more importantly - your daughter needs to feel that this is the case) has been the wrong thing to do, then your default position now is to do the opposite.