To really really hate the phrase 'happy mummy = happy child'?

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

For several reasons:

a) because my mother was depressed, and on an unhappy marriage but I was a happy child, well loved and looked after.

b) because it is one of those trite meaningless phrases trotted out to justify choices made by the for the benefit of the parent.

c) happiness in general has been given hugely inflated value and is a very individualised concept. What makes you happy can be in direct conflict with what is good for you, your family and society in general.

There are more reasons but I have to go and get the paper and some groceries for the family though it would make me happy to stay harping on about happiness on Mn!

Just me then - oh well.

Don't you have to get your groceries?

yes just you

Dd2 has just fallen asleep on me while bf'ing thus delaying departure!

I agree it's an annoying phase but it does have a lot of truth in it. Happy mum does = equal child.

However, that's not to say that unhappy people don't raise happy children. I just think being happy is an added advantage.

Yes shopping trip is delayed indefinitely ... So I am the only one then Chris. Well there is nowt wrong with daring to be different.

Yes I accept that being happy is a good thing but it isn't a life goal and too often it is cited as one. 'as long as they are happy I don't care what my children do' for eg. Which irritates as although I love to see my children happy and smiling and having fun, I also want them to make positive contributions to society, to be educated, and responsible, as true contentment will come from giving something back.

So I don't intend to conme over all Victorian - just think there is more to life than 'don't worry, be happy'.

Bigmouthstrikesagain,

So what are your issues.

Reallytired dons the dodgy earrings and speaks in a very soft and patronising voice.

"a) because my mother was depressed, and on an unhappy marriage but I was a happy child, well loved and looked after."

Surely you would have got more out of life if everyone in your family had been happy. Has your mother being totally and utterly self sacrificing made you a happier adult.

"b) because it is one of those trite meaningless phrases trotted out to justify choices made by the for the benefit of the parent."

What choices are you thinking of? What is bugging you? Are you confident about your own choices.

"c) happiness in general has been given hugely inflated value and is a very individualised concept. What makes you happy can be in direct conflict with what is good for you, your family and society in general."

A healthy family unit is always making compromises between individual members.

I know a mother who was perfectly happy for years - she spent every weekend having a drug fueled party.

Her children were NOT happy, despite having a very happy mother.

She has since been reported to the SS, who intervened. She still has care of the children, but now lives a 'child focused life' in that she gives them bedding and cooks meals and doesn't hold loud all night parties when they are there.

She is unhappy. She is bored. But the kids are ecstatic to be clean and cared for.

"happy mother = happy child" relies rather heavily on the assumption that the mother isn't an intrinsically selfish person.

No it is a silly phrase.

What might make a person happy eg going out on a drinking binge for 24 hours clearly doesn't make a child happy.

i dont attach major significance to it.innocuous phrase

coldtitz i find it hard to believe that the mother was really happy in the frst instance and i also find it hard to believe that the children are really happy now from how you describe it.

I think children are very much affected by the emotional state of their mothers but do agree the expression can be used as a way of justifying actually not thinking of childrens needs at all.

What colditz said. I was going to say, what if what makes mummy happy is lots of heroin?

The phrase is silly, it presupposes that all mothers will have their childs best interests at heart. Which is patently not true.

However I don't agree necessarily with the OP in that when I hear the phrase I don't think the reverse must hold as well. To me the phrase happy mum = happy child does not automatically mean that unhappy mum = unhappy child.

So people who have lifestyles outside the accepted norm are automatically unhappy?

Nonsense.

sorry ive adapted your name!

Do drugs really make people happy?

I am going back to work and my daughter will be in a nursery 3 days a week at 10 months. Do you think she will like it at first? Once she settles in then I am sure she will be happy at nursery.

With my son I was a stay at home mum. I suffered severe depression and being ill interfered with my ablity to look after my son well. He was clean and well cared for, but my care of him was satisfactory rather than excellent.

I had a charming health visitor who told me that the children of depressed mothers often have slower development. Mothers who are depressed have less energy to stimulate their kids. I have no idea whether what the health visitor said is true.

Loads of examples not involving drugs.

Mummy likes to go off by herself all the time to persue a hobby

Mummy is member of a religious sect which demands 18 hours silent worship a day

Mummy likes to have lots of different boyfriends and go out all the time

It's foolish to suggest that whatever makes mummy happy will automatically make the children happy. Those situations, plus the others mentioned, could well make children unhappy.

I think Happy mum happy baby works to a certain extent e.g if being a sahm is driving you nuts probably would be better for child if you work and are happier. But the phrase can be used to justify any means e.g

My sil and BIl worked full time came in once their child was in bed went out all weekend because she had earned it. Bil mum took care of child mum certainly happy but nan who not only raised her grandson but was also caring for her sick elderly husband was not happy. So in this case no I don't agree the saying works because the child's primary care giver was not happy. But they trotted out the happy mum happy baby everytime Bils mum tried to say it was not fair on the child.

It is no more true than happy child = happy mother. Clearly there are benefits to the other party if mother or child is happy, and disadvantages if they aren't, but it is not a simple matter of cause and effect.

I don't like it as a phrase either. It is trotted out all the time and without a thought.

There obviously is a basis to it in that if you're desperately unhappy and it's affecting your ability to parent, then working on what it is that's making you unhappy can have the knock on effect of improving your parenting and your enjoyment of it.

I don't like it because I do think it's a careless thing to say sometimes, especially to or in earshot of a mother who is struggling greatly with her own happiness for whatever reason, depression, bereavement etc and it sounds a little like a criticism then. Because unhappy mother does NOT equal unhappy child. I also think it is used as a justification. It's hard to illustrate it without it sounding loaded but for example 'I've decided to use controlled crying on my 4 month old as I need some sleep, happy mummy, happy baby, right?" Wrong, actually.

And happiness is overrated as a goal. I prefer to be content. I am happy a lot of the time but I see happiness as transient. There are happy times and sad times, angry and calm etc but being content is a lot more valuable.

But the I also dislike 'as long as he's happy' or 'as long as he's healthy' when used to refer to babies. I think it makes things conditional that shouldn't be although I understand why people say it.

Better saying imo is

you can please some of the people all of the time and you can please all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

It is just about finding the right balance.

It's a cr*p phrase, usually trotted out to make someone feel good about doing something for which they feel they may be judged (most usually, giving up bf-ing).

I'm happiest halfway through a bottle of Sauvginon Blanc but I don't think that does my children any good.

It's a phrase that, like "you were too good for him", is used to comfort and reassure people who are having a hard time. And yes, I see it most often wrt stopping breastfeeding after a long struggle, rather than condoning a drug-fuelled hedonsitic lifestyle. It doesn't have to be true. It isn't a statement of fact. It's used in a particular way for a particular purpose.

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