To really really hate the phrase 'happy mummy = happy child'?

[Bigmouthstrikesagain]

For several reasons:

a) because my mother was depressed, and on an unhappy marriage but I was a happy child, well loved and looked after.

b) because it is one of those trite meaningless phrases trotted out to justify choices made by the for the benefit of the parent.

c) happiness in general has been given hugely inflated value and is a very individualised concept. What makes you happy can be in direct conflict with what is good for you, your family and society in general.

There are more reasons but I have to go and get the paper and some groceries for the family though it would make me happy to stay harping on about happiness on Mn!

I think there is some truth in it. When I had dd I really struggled to bf her and I was very upset and quite depressed by it. Dd was a very moany baaby and cried alot and was impossible to settle. In the end my mum insisted that I stop brest feeding and give her a bottle instead and it was the best thing i ever did..... the minute I was chilled and relaxed she was like another baby..... so i think in this case a happy mum did result in a happy baby.

that said I have since had severe depression and my kids are still happy little things so who knows.

I think there is some truth. I know when I am happy and content I am a much better mother and DS is a lot happier and relaxed. If I am grumpy and pissed off about something then DS tends to reflect that.

"Happy" is a tricky one.

Yeah agree with what morloth said.

For me, the phrase was helpful. When DS was born I would feel guilty about doing anything which meant I wasn't watching him 24 hours! When i realised that I could still have a life it made me a happier mummy and a better mummy because I was happy. I'm a chilled person and I think that has helped make him a chilled baby!

Of course if you over think it, or look at extremes like drug taking then it starts to make less sense.

depends on why she is happy.

Totally agree with AliGrylls, it depends on why she is happy.

I agree it is a silly phrase. But there many choices made for the benefit of the parent that benefit all the family, children included.

totally agree with you bigmouth - well said! Excellent post and very well put, and I wish mmore people would stand up and say this stuff.

it was not the drug taking that was making her children unhappy, it was her lack of care and time for them.

They probably aren't entirely happy now she is bored and resentful (which she wasn't before, when she was happily doing as she pleased) but they are a hell of a lot happier. They no longer turn up at my house at 2 in the afternoon begging for breakfast. They are no longer inappropriately dressed.

So an action that has directly led to the mother's dissatisfaction (SS insisting she takes a child centred approach, rather than a her cenred approach) has directly led to an increase in the child's happiness.

And you could say this about many things.

When I was 13, my mother had an evening job. It made her happy. It did NOT make ME happy. She was out of the house until 7pm leaving me to look after my siblings, which in itself wasn't a problem but meant I had no social life. I was not happy at her happiness, I wanted her to come home and look after my brother and sister so I could go out, and I did not care how unhappy this made her.

My friend was raised by a childminder. She was there 5 days a week until 7 pm. The childminder used to put her in her pyjamas and she was put straight to bed when she got home. This continued until she was 11, when she was expected to go home, have some oven food, and sit on her own until a parent got back. Her parents did NOT financially need to live this life. They were really very very rich - they had ponies and a swimming pool - and could have dropped some hours and lost some money quite comfortably. They chose not to, and my friend resents being emotionally neglected by her parents.

A friend of my sister's is the oldest of 11. She came round sobbing when she was about 15 that her mother was pregnant again, and couldn't she see that there already wasn't enough to go around? I happen to know the mother socially - her mother loves having a big family, but at least one of those children has been made very unhappy by her decision.

All of these are normal family situations without a hint of a drug or abuse. In all of them, the "Mummy" was happy, so why weren't the children?

Children are not happy because mummy is happy, they are happy when their needs are appropriately met. If they get that with a happy mother, I'm sure they'd be pleased - otherwise I think most children will choose for their needs to be met regardless of how their mother feels about doing so.

tis a silly phrase and can be used in a slightly judgemental way sometimes - also has the potential to make mums who are not happy for whatever reason, PND or other, feel guilty that they might be negatively affecting their child, thus adding to their stress and unhappiness.

Although there is some truth in it, that a massively anxious/stressed mum will give off those "vibes" to her child - but I don't see that it helps by appearing pejorative. There are nicer ways to help stressed/anxious people.

The one that really grates on me is "routine" and I try to avoid its use whenever possible in regards to DS. So trite - "oh he's not happy cos his routine is out"; "have you got him back into a routine yet" - GAH!

Some people really are obsessed with routines. I get that it works really well for some people, but a lot of the time from the outside it just appears to add stress rather than relieve it.

Would have driven me crazy. We enjoy a bit of chaos around here.

well I kind of agree, when I am happy (i.e relaxing in a bath with a good book) my children are normally screaming the place down looking for me so in this house happy mummy does not equal happy child.

Personally I think children rather enjoy screaming the place down when their Mum is trying to have a moment's peace (i.e. a bath or even god forbid a poo).

There is no other explanation for it than sheer bloodymindedness IMO.

It seems to be used in the sense of "Don't put yourself under unneccessary pressure to be perfect all the time". In that usage I agree with it. I haven't heard it said in any other context though, esp not a mother with PND.

Though I agree with your general point about happiness as a goal, OP.

'depends on why she is happy.'

I agree entirely. If her happiness fits in with the DCs then I can see that it is true, however, as people have mentioned, the mother can be perfectly happy in ways that are to the detriment of her DC.

Bigmouth - 'because my mother was depressed, and on an unhappy marriage but I was a happy child, well loved and looked after'

Well jolly good for you. My mother was the same, and I was not a happy child as a result. When she was depressed she would be in a foul mood, which definitely affected me. When she was happy, I was happier. Most children are affected by the attitudes and feelings imo. Like Larkin says:
'Man hands on misery to man
It steepens like a coastal shelf
Get out as early as you can
And don't have any kids yourself'

YANBU

it's a stupid, trite, irritating phrase

I find it really weird that more than one person has questioned the issue when the mother is only happy because she's using mind altering substances (legal - alcohol, or, illegal - drugs). I think the phrase assumes a natural state of happiness rather than an artificial one. Most people who take lots of drugs or drink a lot are self-medicating because they aren't happy.

My understanding is that if you made decisions for the benefit of your children, but resent those decisions a certain amount of resentment is bound to leak and affect your relationship with your children.

Eitherway, I never realised it cause such offence and will certainly be more careful before using it again.

The mother could be perfectly happy e.g. she has got her DC into a selective school but DC might not want to be in a selective school. Mother might think HE is fantastic but DC might rather be at school. Mother might have a highly paid, fulfilling job where she flies all over the world, DC might prefer less money and having their mother home every night. Mother might thrive on being sociable and take DC to all sorts of clubs, DC might be anti social and want to curl up with a book on their own. Or vice versa in every case. Those have nothing to do with mind altering substances.

I think realistically that not many people would apply that phrase to extreme situations (e.g. drugs, religious cults etc.). It's more often to do with decisions about working and BFing vs FFing.

I think it's more appropriate to spin it round: Does an extremely stressed out, tearful mother find it easy to make her child content/happy? Or is it easier if she's feeling less stressed and more able to cope with life?

The mother's level of emotional wellbeing has an effect on the child, however other factors may override that effect depending on the situation.

Yes, the phrase is not terribly helpful and is a generalisation but it still has a grain of truth in it.

It is like any phrase, on face value there is a lot of truth in it but, if you want to, you can pick holes in it. You could generalise and say that if you had 2 mothers one happy and one unhappy then the DC of the happpier one is likely to be the happier DC. However,unlike OP, I don't hate the phrase in the first place.

but there so obviously is a lot of truth in that saying - you don't have to take it to ridiculous extremes, happiness does breed happiness and misery loves company

Sorry that I didn't get back on mn last night as I see the discussion moved on in my absence. I really apreciate the responces to my rant. Thank you.

I do understand that some may feel my reaction against a seemingly innocuous phrase, is excessive. It. For me the phrase represents the tendency to give priority to individual choice and self gratification, over self dicipline and social good.

Happiness is a transient emotion and a very subjective unquantifiable state of mind, so for me it's not a useful parenting philosophy. I couldn't have hot through all the difficulties of parenting in the last 5+ years, 3 pregnancies, 5 years of breast feeding, thousands of nappies etc etc blah blah blah ... You get the picture. It may help others, I accept that but I reserve my right to edit out of the parenting manual in my head.

On the subject of my mother, reallytired she was not self sacrificing, she was a depressive, so she would have been unhappy whatever path her life led, I really don't think I am any more f**ed up than anyone else though. And as my father died when I was 18 I am very glad she did not leave him as I would not have had those precious last years with otherwise.

Children are self centred and do not see why parents should put themselves first. Being happy is great and lovely and all that but I don't kid myself that it is what makes me a good parent.

Reading back through that last post I am wincing at all the typos, unfortunately I am posting from my phone and it is more difficult to edit as I type. Sorry!

I completely agree with bigmouth on the nature of happiness.

some of us do need to give ourselves permission to promote our own mental well-being even if there is a potential clash with something the children want to do/have - you can take it to either extreme can't you?

I think when it first occurred, it was initially intended to suggest to mothers that they shouldn't feel obligated to give up every inch of their individuallity, personality, time and energy to their children - that they were entitled to a bit of 'me-time' now and again and that their children wouldn't grow up into hellions or die of neglect if they spent a bit of money on a nice haircut or took an evening out with their girlfriends. The underlying assumption being that many mothers do feel this way and in a way, society encourages this.

However sadly it now seems to be used by a lot of people to justify behaving in a way that is not actually that good for their child. I know my friend uses it all the time to justify the constant stream of men she has through her house - each one baby's 'new daddy' and moved in within a couple of weeks. She knows deep down that this isn't very good for her LO but she needs a man in her life so much she has to find a way of justifying it to herself.

And before anyone thinks I am bitching about her, I am not - she is my best friend in the world and I support her and listen to her and commiserate with her 100% of the time... but her LO has had around 6 daddies living with her in the last 2 years, all of whom have left fairly suddenly once the relationship breaks down. Which isn't ideal for the young child.

but what do I know, I am mearly pregnant with PFB.