AIBU to complain about my DD's punishment at school

[magentadreamer]

My DD is in yr8, not a known trouble maker and most of her teachers state she is a hard working quiet child.DD doesn't push the uniform rules or any other school rules to the limit and has yet to get the "teen attitude". She also knows I'd be livid with her should she back chat teachers etc.

DD unfortunately left both her keys and her school shoes at her Dad's yesterday and as he'd already gone to work this morning I was unable to drop her off there to get her school shoes. I told Dd to wear a her plain black trainers instead and wrote a note in her planner explaining why she was wearing a banned item of footwear. Dd was told at the Breakfast club she would have to go see her Head of Year regarding her trainers, the teacher in charge didn't want to see my note nor did the Head of year. Dd after explaining I was at work and she couldn't get her shoes was sent to the school isolation unit because she was wearing a pair of black trainers! DD did ask if she could wear the pumps she has for drama but since they were grey she was told she couldn't - these pumps aren't a uniform item and were bought at the bequest of the drama teacher. At no point was I contacted regarding her being put into the isolation unit. If I had I'd have left work driven the 20 mile round trip to get her Dad's house keys and retrived her school shoes so she could have attended lessons.

I could understand this punishment if she was always in trouble but she isn't. I'd have even supported the school if she was forever flouting school rules but she's the kind of child who goes to school, does what she is asked and avoids any kind of trouble by behaving herself. I'm not one of those Mums who thinks their Dc is an angel who can do know wrong.

I have written a letter to school tonight and her Dad is going to ring first thing but I now feel like going into school tomorrow and camping out till someone will explain why my Dd was put into the isolation unit for wearing a pair of plain non flashy trainers!

raven - if you are teacher you and your ilk are the reason i would decide to home ed.

i have gone through this all before. my son has special education needs. my sister is a teacher. im far less officious than you appear to be and i am a police officer. i do my job with a healthy dollop of common sense.

i did not say i would allow my daughter to truant. i asked if the school would rather she hadnt gone.
given the choice between going to school in order to learn something and going to school to get punished for wearing the wrong shoes i know which i would choose. in this case the childs 'wrong doing' was out of the childs hands. what is more important in the long term? going to school in the right shoes?? that makes perfect sense. not. im afraid i dealt with too many teachers like you in the past to particularly care what you think. your very quick to put words in my mouth.

i got punished for breaking the rules in school, i had been taken into temporary foster care and did not have access to my own things. teachers like you cause people like me to have very long memories.

It's two separate arguments though, Tiger.

Making uniform optional, or getting rid entirely - yes, I can definitely see a case for it.

BUT when you've got 100s of people to deal with, many of them fairly daft, & with limited legal responsibility for their own behaviour - you've got to start from 'If we have a rule, it doesn't matter how bloody silly you or your mum think it is - you comply with it.'

It's not just the elf & safety. It's stuff like putting your hand up instead of shouting out, not calling people 'gay' because you don't like their haircut, turning up to lessons even if you'd actually rather be having a spliff behind the cricket pavilion.

The obvious answer is 'Well, don't HAVE silly rules then'. Which'll be great, as soon as we can all agree which ones are the silly ones.

Parents at the school where I teach are overwhelmingly in favour of our very trad, reasonably strictly enforced uniform...

it is the judges and goverment whom make the laws

It is the police who inforce those laws with common sense

Sorry, I'd go with the obvious answer. I fully expect to spend the next 11 years bailing DS out of this sort of thing, and that's fine.

The whole rules is rules thing is just bonkers: trite example but think of "we were just following orders". You have to assume that everyone has a mind of their own and acts voluntarily, hopefully they do so with a view to the greater good, but they have to decide for themselves. I don't buy the argument that we have 100s of them to look after (so we'll just impose a valueless arbitary system on them to keep "order").

Aaargh. I think I need to go to bed. I hadn't realised how cross all this makes me.

'If we have a rule, it doesn't matter how bloody silly you or your mum think it is - you comply with it

and you wonder why you get parents backs up?

you and me both tiger.

Vicar, I didn't put words into your mouth - I quoted your words. Most LAs wouldn't regard keeping a child off school because of disagreeing with the uniform policy, as authorised absence.

I've said all along that I think the school was unreasonable in this instance. If the Op's dd had been in my tutor group, I'd've asked to see the note, written a quick reply 'no problem - will she have shoes for Monday?' - & it would've ended there.

Actually, I have a lad in my tutor group atm who isn't in uniform because he's not living at home (horrendous situation NOT of his making).

Having deflected the Head from bollocking him this morning, I have found him a school jumper, trousers & tie in Lost Property. They are currently in my washing machine, so he'll have something to change into when (if) he turns up on Monday.

I'm not convinced that I'm being officious here. I'm arguing that the school should NOT have punished the OP's dd for a fleeting moment's carelessness, BUT that in the grand scheme of things, a day in Isolation is not the end of the world - & that the answer is not to bunk off or to enter into special pleading on one's child's behalf.

Stroppy letter to Head asking him/her to review policy on isolation for uniform infringements (ie. persistent offenders, not one-offs) - yes, absolutely.

Vicar, it's a pleasure.

I repeat myself. Its the OPs fault for not making sure your DD had her things when returning from her Dads.Simple! Take some responsibility!

Raven

"persistent offenders"

Are these thick children, ones who won't learn, ones without imagination, ones who disrupt lessons.

or ones who don't wear the right shoes.

Or who have long hair they don't tie back?

Come off it.

likewise tiger. dont remember the other thread btw!

sorry raven but you are not quoting me at all. nowhere did i say anything about truanting. happily at my daughters school this wouldnt be an issue, which is why i choose to send her there, they appear to be more focused on the all round well being of the child than enforcing daft rules at any cost. like i said, common sense goes a long way. so this is a non argument on account of my daughter. it simply wouldnt happen. happily.

im not getting your point on the rest. you have saved a child in dire straits from a bollocking from the head teacher and found him a uniform. its big of you. really. im sure all he had on his mind was how to appease the head because he wasnt in uniform. you are to be congratulated.

No, of course not. Mostly the uniform rebels are thoroughly nice kids expressing a little individuality.

My 15 year old self would piss herself laughing at the spectacle of me, aged 39, (however half-heartedly) defending school uniform, I can tell you that!

I keep saying it - I don't think uniform is necessarily a good thing. I don't think putting kids into isolation for turning up in the wrong shoes is at all a good thing!

But - you choose to go to a school, you choose to follow the rules or accept the sanctions. Or you lobby the Head or the governors to change those rules.

The thing is - you think uniform's a silly irrelevance. I'm on the fence. Most parents of my students are enthusiastically in favour, & presumably parents at your ds's school are too.

Assuming that's the case, if you attempt to 'bail your ds out', then I'd argue that that's unfair - everyone else is expected to comply with this particular rule, & a majority are fully supportive of the reasons for it.

where is the OP? Feeling guilty?

Vicar, I quoted you directly. You said you'd not send your child to school, rather than have them be 'humiliated' by being punished for not being in uniform.

I think you'd struggle to find an LA that regarded 'parent disagrees with school discipline policy & is keeping child at home to avoid it' as anything but unauthorised absence.

& I agree, your dd's school sounds much more sensible than the OP's dd's.

My point about my tutee is that actually, I'm not some vengeful loon out to lock up children who, for reasons outside of their control, arrive at school without uniform. Nor is it our school's policy, although the Head might quite like it...

The lad in question is having a truly horrible time. He wants to come in & work for his GCSEs. He does NOT want to have to explain to every staff member & student he encounters, that he's not in uniform because he would be putting himself in physical danger if he tried to return home. He couldn't give a monkey's whether the Head gives him a bollocking or not - but if I sort him out a uniform, he will have one less thing to deal with.

school overly heavy handed & apparently lacking in common sense.

In such a situation I'm afraid I would complain - why should your DD effectively lose a days schooling because her teacher couldnt be bothered to read your note and/or because the school doesnt have a sensible procedure for these situations? (ie at DS's school, they have spare uniform & plimsolls for anyone who turns up incorrectly dressed to put on - that way no child misses lessons, and equally any non uniform clothing isnt worn!)

When I was at school, we had some very vague uniform guidelines which I often found myself in breach of (in the teachers view) - on one occasion my head of year called my mum at work to come and take me home 'to change' - mum sent him off with a verbal flea in his ear making it clear she was far too busy to do so & suggesting it would be a much better use of time for all concerned if they simply gave me a letter saying X wasnt uniform & not to be worn again. Which oddly enough shortly thereafter the school started doing.

Whilst I think generally having a school uniform is good, I'm not sure its always helpful for a school to take such a rigid approach...am thinking of a local school where girls are only allowed to wear hairbands/clips in the uniform colour - green. I mean, why?

OP. The school is not at fault.
School rules are set out quite clearly when you apply.
If you want your Dd to attend this school, then you must agree to their rules.
The onus is on you to make sure your Dd complies.You are responsible. You are the parent.
It is not the schools problem. Its yours!

FFS what a load of wank. When it comes to picking a secondary school for DS (luckily a good 5 years away) one of the things that would put me right off a school is this sort of petty, officious time-wasting. It indicates a narrow-minded stupid attitude that is actually contrary to good education (obey all rules, submit, conform, or suffer - well that's a great mindset to instill, isn't it?)

What do you mean by choice? Where I live, you go to the school in your catchment. End of.

Depends how you set the rules, & how you then review them.

If you & I agree, SGB, that school uniform is a load of wanky petty officious time-wasting, but we are lone voices, & the parents of the other 998 children at our dc's school are vociferously in favour of blazers & boaters...

...then my reaction would probably be, well, I'll tell my dc they're stuck with the uniform. Yours might be to choose a different school, or home ed. Fair enough.

It's the pick'n'mix approach to school rules that I have a problem with. Because you & I might think that uniform rules are a 'valueless arbitary system', to quote TigerDrivesAgain - but lots (in most schools, a clear majority) of parents are going to think that uniform is a splendid notion. Plenty of arguments either way, tbh.

Meanwhile, someone else thinks that their kid shouldn't have to do homework. Or detention. Or keep their views on white supremacy to themselves.

At some point, somebody, or a group of somebodies, are going to have to decide what rules & expectations the school is going to have as part of its operating system.

& I bloody agree with everyone who says that fretting over uniform is a waste of time. Let's abolish it, nationwide, as of Monday, if the country's parents want rid. In fact, screw the parents - they don't have to wear it. Let's have a plebiscite of 11-16 year olds.

But you are going to have to have some rules. Or there's no come back against the racist, the homophobe, the bully, or just the kid who derails every lesson (s)he attends.

So we're back to drawing up rules - & who gets to decide them. Student body? Great, they're usually much stricter than teachers would be - & less out of touch than the governors.

There's no way it should be about being 'narrow-minded' or 'stupid' or not questioning rules. Of course rules should be questioned & challenged - constantly.

Did I mention that I think the OP's dd's school were bang out of order, & the OP should ask them to review their policy re: uniform issues & isolation?!

Gah.

Blimey loads of replies.

I was always under the impression that an isolation unit was used to punish those DC's that had perhaps done something a little bit more serious than wear a pair of plain black trainers to school. If DD was a serial offend when it came to uniform regulations I'd have fully supported the school putting her in the Isolation unit.

To the OP who stated DD would have got on with her school work in the isolation unit unfortunately the work set for Dd was stuff she had done in yr7 so bore no relation to the lessons she missed.

I also find it ludicrus that Dd was actually allowed out at break and lunchtime wearing the offending trainers. Had she been given an after school detention and made to stay in at breaktime and lunchtime Id have told DD "tough get on with it"

To the OP who posted that if I should complain I shouldn't tell DD I'd like to point out my DD is fully aware that should she land up in trouble again at school then using the "My Mum will complain card" is likely to lead to her facing harsh consequences at home.

Dd's Father has spoken to the Head of Year - a lovely woman by all accounts and is now waiting on a phone call from the Head. I doubt that any thing will be changed but I personally feel that a day in isolation for not wearing regulation shoes is a bit OTT for a first offence.

Thank you for all your replies it's been very interesting to read others points of view.

you seem to be very mixed up raven I am not sure what you mean by rules are there to be questioned constantly? Yet you think rules whatever they are you should obey.

school pupil council where rules are made and changed with real pupil input was what we had at school.

i got fed up of arguing over a problem that wasnt actually mine with a petty officious teacher,who like a dog with a bone kept "quoting" me saying something i didnt actually say - so i went to bed.

OP, im with you on this one.

SGB - in principle and spirit, I agree with you - but I think you may end up Home edding at secondary level! All secondary schools, state and independent (except rare cases) seem very strict on uniform rules. Though I guess some have more leeway in what is allowed under those rules than others.

This kind of crap is exactly why I (and many others) rejected school completely as a teenager.
Uniform of sorts is fine imo - requiring black (or grey, or whatever) skirts/trousers and the school sweatshirt is plenty, along with sensible guidelines about not wearing vertiginous shoes or stupidly branded trainers. But to get so worked up about a one-off minor infringement, let alone one with mitigating circumstances, is fucking insane.
YANBU to complain - I would.