To think that the welfare state is too generous if people in council flats have way more stuff than those on middle income can afford (no really lets have a discussion)

[splodge2001]

Maybe it's where I live (central london) maybe it's me (hmm, I don't think so) and It's definitely something that's been ruminating around my head for a while. An argument I've tried to unpick but I always come to the same conclusion.

I'm sure I'm going to be lynched but I'm keen to get other people's perspective on this....Here we go...

Where I live private housing is expensive and intermingled with social housing. It's hard to tell the difference between the social housing and the private dwellings. Certainly on the open market they fetch very similar prices. I'm feeling grumpy because we (DH and I) pay a lot of tax which goes to the people down the road in social housing, of course we should pay tax to support those on low earnings BUT, it does start to grate when though people in subsidised housing seem to have much bigger disposable incomes. eg. everyone I know who lives in the council flats near us can afford a car, we cannot. They can afford several holidays per year, we cannot

Isn't the welfare state just a bit too generous to enable those on low incomes to afford more than those on higher incomes? Surely the point of welfare isn't to subsidise cars or 42inch TVs.

I'm sure I'll be told to move out of London if I want more but this doesn't address the issue that I'm raising. Why should I subsidise people living in central london when I cant afford to live here myself.

Analogy moment....

I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government, who instead gives it to someone else so that they can buy a car. Boo hoo!!!

Go on let the stoning begin!!!!

no tether - that's £25 of the money that I get from the church for playing the organ for them (and yes benefits know I've got my pocket money coming in............which goes into the bills/debts pot anyhow....oh and the violin lessons )

"I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government, who instead gives it to someone else so that they can buy a car. Boo hoo!!!"

a better analogy would be

"I have 5k and would like to buy a car, instead I'm forced to give up my 5k to the government (along with 1000 other), who instead gives it £50 to 10 other peoples so that they can buy whatever they most need to do and the remaining £4,999,500 on infrastructure we all benefit from. Boo hoo!!!"

hang on expat - let me go and wake DS1 up - he can play along on his violin

im going to bed

goodnight

Loving the violin theme to this thread

ha!

why not send him out to do some Xmas busking, always?

ooooo - I wouldn't like to inflict him on poor unsuspecting strangers just yet - it's getting nicer, but still not "pretty"

There is an argument to be had though. The benefits system is in a mess and I'm sure there's just as many people not getting what they should get as those taking the piss.

He'll probably just spend taxpayers hard-earned money on booze; they all do, you know

oh, and there might indeed be lawyers or doctors in a building originally constructed as council housing - it's entirely possible they are private tenants of a landlord who bought the abode (possibly at full-market value from a vendor) and pay market-rent for the area.

I'm going to bed now in my central London housing association bedroom in the bed which I bought with my own hard earned cash so I can get up in the morning and get on a tube which the OP's tax money has probably paid for and teach horrible poor children in a state school.

Goodnight.

ooh bugger you know what - the violin lessons might have come out of my organ pay - but the OP paid for my new pink timberland boots I bought the other week. Thank you OP that £20 to treat buy myself some nice new boots for winter was much appreciated - especially as the trainers I bought for £5 last year in shoezone were at the "leaking" stage

And I think the OP has taken a little too much flaming.

I imagine it's very difficult for those, like her, who are living just above the 'help threshold'. She is living in a very mixed area seeing people who don't work being better off than her. Of course it must grate.

It's also naive to assume that all of these people have the intention to go out to work. Lots of people have low aspirations and little intention of ever working. Not the majority but we can't ingore the fact that it is a lifestyle choice for some people. Not necessarily because they have everything they want but because they have little aspiration.

Instead of being defensive, we should be able to have a sensible discussion on the problem and how we can help these people on to better things.

"I imagine it's very difficult for those, like her, who are living just above the 'help threshold'. She is living in a very mixed area seeing people who don't work being better off than her. Of course it must grate."

yeah it's bloody hard - we were there for several years. Very mixed area (first house was on a "council estate" - this one different mix - but still mixed).

Can't say it grated with me.

and I believe there is at least one poster (than I know for certain) who is part of the working poor - who are actually worse off than those on benefits (being on benefits is shit, being part of the working poor is ABSOLUTE shit) and I can't say I've ever seen them moaning either (well no more than your normal everyday "oh god x,y,z is shit" type stuff)

Always I'm so sorry but,

Violin lessons? Were they essential do you think? Honestly?

well flaming those on with low aspirations isn't going to do much good.

And I can't say I've seen ANY discussion on this thread as to how that problem can be solved .

I know,

why dont we set up some sort of exchange scheme?

All those lounging around in their luxe council apartments agree to swop with poor homeowners.

Its only fair to spread the wealth around and give those poor chaps a chance to afford violin lessons and private schools.

This thread is maaaaad.

well Ninks...................

No they weren't essential, but neither is my baccy or the magners in the fridge

Oh feckety feck now I'm going to hear how I'm very wrong. Sorry!

There are some nasty nasty people on here - if this is what MN is about these days I want none of it.

Someone comes on with a different perspective, having worked in Ghana, and is told to f-off. Very mature.

FWIW Splodge I think you are being extremely dignified in your responses. A few posters have understood what you are saying but most just seem to assume you have it in for anyone on benefits, no matter what their circumstances.

On the other hand I do think it is useful to hear first hand accounts of people who are on benefits/living in council accommodation because oftne it IS hard to know the truth about other people's lives.

still not in bed

but its funny alwayslookingforanswers

you almost proudly shout about your leaking shoes as if you cant imagine anyone else in that situation

well it was me all throughout my last pregnancy

YABU! Tobacco and vodka are essentials.

Violin lessons OMG call SS!

Can I just also add, in all seriousness, it is huge numbers of people like Splodge who traditionally vote for extremists. Not because they are racist or fascist themselves but because they feel marginalised by mainstream politics/policies in favour of those they feel are being given an unfair advantage without working for it. It happened in Europe in the 1930s. We are seeing it now with the increase in the BNP support.

This is not my politcal viewpoint and it is not necessarily Splodge's but this is how it happens and we need to recognise the concerns of people in Splodge's position.