To think adverts for and more info on formulas should be allowed?

[StrictlyBoogying]

I couldn't and didn't breastfeed either of my DCs for many reasons and when in hospital I was asked which formula I wanted DD1 to have. I had no idea which to choose and the staff weren't allowed to suggest or recommend one brand. I think it's ridiculous. People who want to make an informed decision on formula aren't being allowed to.

YABU.
Advertising of breastmilk substitutes has been banned for a reason. If you want to feed formula, thats totally your choice, but if you are honestly interested in what nutritional content is, then go on the internet and check, or stand in the supermarket and compare the labels, the information is there.
I really dont see how advertising will educate you as to which formula is best. What it will do is undermine the confidence of women who have chosen to breastfeed, and potentially influence those who are pregnant and as yet undecided.

haven't read the whole thread, but my midwife in hospital did suggest a brand. as she asked and i was like "i dunno, what ones have you got?" she told me Muslims tend to go for cow and gate, so I said okay then and that is the formula I used up until I moved ds onto cows milk, so she did pretty much influence the decision...
(I think cos it has halal certified written on the side she suggested it, cos as far as I know all of them are halal and okay anyway)
but I later heard her saying to jewish lady opposite the same thing 'Jewish people tend to go for cow and gate' maybe she just had a liking for promote that milk!
anyway i think yanbu there should not be such a ban on formula milks I think. I doubt someone wanting to bf will give up just by seeing SMA or Cow and gate advertised on the tv!

I don't think adverts give the information needed to make an informed choice as to which brand of formula to use. What I think I would have found helpful had I needed to formula feed was an unbiased review of the nutritional content of all the milks. If the conclusion was that they were all nutritionally the same, then fine, but it would have reassured me to read something from the food standards agency or similar.

There is some unbiased information out there looking at specific additives to formula and their benefits (or not), but you have to hunt around for it.

Hydrolysed formula www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003664.html

Probiotics:
www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab006475.html

Long chain fatty acids:
www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab000376.html

Soy based formula:
www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab003741.html

Breastfeeding is advertised on UTV.

Advertising - no no no no no no no.
Information - oh yes please.

When I had DS1 I was post caesarean, crying out for a bit of help with breastfeeding. All anyone on the ward would do though is come over, shove ds1 on my boob by grabbing my boob extremely roughly. It was upsetting and humiliating and despite my requests for someone to talk me through the latch etc it was refused. They just didn't want to know, and post discharge midwives 'didn't have time'.

I did my best, I really did, but when ds1 lost that crucial 10% plus a bit I was threatened with having ds1 re-admitted and was told that as I obviously couldn't get to grips with bf I should change to ff. I asked for some help with that but was refused as they were supposed to be promoting bf!

It was up to me to tearfully go to my local shop and have my mind thoroughly boggled by the array of formulas, and learn how to make bottles by reading the tin.

I really wish I'd known about nct and lll advice lines back then.

DS2 was immediately ff due to my experiences with ds1. I opted for the same formula.

DD I tried to bf, I was feeling a little braver and a few years had passed. On the post natal ward things had changed hugely in the past 4 years and I was offered every support and a bf counsellor kept visiting me. Unfortunately DD was in scbu, and they refused to let her leave until she started to gain weight. They told me the only way that would happen is if I gave her formula so I gave in.

Turns out DD wasn't able to stomach the formula I gave the boys so I had to give her a different one.

Adverts wont make someone who has decided to bf change their mind.

But where I live there are a lot of poorly educated people who when they see adverts like this

Believe that as there are added vitamins and it is being advertised it must be the best. These women I am referring to are v low educated and many don't know how to read and certainly don't research any choices in their life and therefore they would see this advert all their life and would not even think about bf as they would never have watched an advert on telly promoting the benefits and would therefore not know them.

Now at the moment the word breast is put in there but before all these laws were put in place it wasn't so many women believed they were doing the best thing for their baby by ff. If adverts didn't work then bottle feeding would never have become so popular and women would never have stopped bf.

YANBU...

I planned to bf until DD was three months (had to go back to work after then or no house, no bills paid, etc before anyone questions the had to!) but found I had nothing to give after one day. Immediately went onto formula (SMA if you're interested) BUT only had any info or decision made because I had already decided that I would move to FF evenutally. No help from NCT classes or anywhere other than doing my own research. I can't see the point of banning advertising of formula - it's like saying you should ban advertising of bottled water. Not everyone wants it but surely you have a right to know what's out there?

Also as far as I can see that advert gives you no information regarding its properties and it is biased. How would that let you make an informed decision.

I've been wanting to post this very thing for a while, but have been too scared - rightly so by the passionate responses on here!

Anyway, bit of background... I was adamant I was going to breastfeed my son. He had trouble feeding from the start really, mostly because he was very mucousy (he was born via c-section) and his nose was blocked. When he latched on, obviously he couldn't breathe and he pushed away. I asked, and asked, and asked for help and got none. In fact, two years on I'm still waiting for the breastfeeding counsellor to return my (many, tearful) phone calls. Eventually, by the time he was 8 days old and I was reduced to squeezing what little milk I had left on to a sterilised spoon and dripping it into his mouth, I sent my husband to the 24-hour Tesco to buy some formula. He bought Cow&Gate, because that's all they had. The next day, my son was hospitalised and he was fed through a tube for three days. I did eventually "re-lactate" and by the time he was four months old I was breastfeeding all day, with just one bottle before bed. But it was very, very hard and I still get very emotional thinking about it.

I'm now 30 weeks pregnant with number two and while I'm determined to breastfeed and get it right this time, I'm also planning to be prepared if I can't - no late-night dashes to Tesco. But can I get any info about formula? Nope. Nothing. I even signed up to all the stupid baby clubs in the hope they'd give me some info, but all I get is emails telling me breastfeeding is best. I bought some bottles the other day and even they say "breastfeeding is best for your baby" on the side of the box.

I've also found out that the hospital no longer supplies formula, so while I think that my son would have been ok if I'd agreed to him having a couple of mls in a sippy cup that first day, that option is no longer open to me. Either I breastfeed, or I formula feed. No middle ground.

I find it really offensive that women are considered so stupid that we can't be given any information about formula feeding at all. I'm quite capable of watching adverts for everything else and sifting out which info is valuable and which isn't. Why can't I be given the chance to do this with baby milk?

Sorry to waffle on, but I feel really strongly about this and it's quite nice to get it off my chest!

YANBU

Verytiredmummy No one has said you are stupid only that some people are not as intelligent as you and that they may be swayed by adverts.

Now realistically which would help you more adverts trying to sell their product even lying to make the sale. I refer you to the washing powder adverts when you get a white blouse covered in red wine and a 40 degree wash brings it out sparkling white I personally have yet to find a washing powder magically capable of this.

Or unbiased statistical reviews on ingredients and product information and advantages and disadvantages of each milk given to you by a health professional when you ask for it.

In which case what is the point of an advert when obviously the latter of my suggestions would be better why not push for something that will actually help you rather than something which will lower bf rates and care about nothing over than making a sale.

Verytiredmummy - hospitals only won't provide formula if you are intending to ff. If a bf baby needs supplementing with formula because they have low blood sugar or are becoming dehydrated, and you can't express any colostrum, they will provide formula to bridge the gap until the mother is discharged or has got her baby latched on.

Want to wish you good luck with this baby. Have you considered expressing colostrum and freezing it before your baby is born? Some women do this in order to ensure a supply of food for their baby should they have difficulty getting their baby latched on in the first day or so? Would this be an option for you? It might ease your concern about the thought of bf again to know you have that option.

No-one is ever going to agree on this subject as we all feel equally passionately about formula vs breastfeeding when, really, it's an individual choice. When pregnant I felt very pressured to breastfeed and also to consider a "natural" childbirth (thank you NCT). I'm exceptionally bloody minded and strong willed but I found myself bowing under the pressure. I don't think it's right that either method is considered "right/wrong". There is a need for formula.

Banning advertising has had little or no effect on tobacco consumption (between 4% and 9%, I believe) and given that alcohol advertising continues unabated banning advertsing for baby formula seems a little over the top.

I feel quite strongly that health visitors/midwives etc should be able to advise on formula feeding as they are more than happy to dispense wisdom on breast feeding. Having said that, my experience of midwives was excellent - they were pragmatic about formula.

I didnt breastfeed my first two but did my third. Ads or no ads had nothing to do with it. What put me off with my first two was talking to mums and also reading breastfeeding forums where pretty much everypost is how awful it is how much it hurts how baby never sleeps etc.

breastfeeding was fine with my third I never had any pain or problems BUT my daughter was very jaundiced and wouldnt wake up to feed etc in the first weeks and after she was admitted to hospital I was told to give her formula (I know that most people here will say I shouldnt have but she was pretty ill and didnt even wake when they were putting needles in so I was willing to do anything at that point). It was lucky I had already fed two children formula because I would have had no clue otherwise!.

I ended up breastfeeding and bottle feeding to top up for about 8 weeks but wished I could have longer.

There should be more information on formula feeding and also expressing as this is something I only really learned about when it was too late.

So adverts no - imformation yes.

As with anything bf related, I agree with everything Thisisyesterday has said.

I find it very sad when people say "I couldn't breastfeed" when in reality, they meant they faced difficulties which could have been overcome with the right knowledge and sufficient help.

Both my children have had some formula though - I found SMA to be horribly constipating and made the poo smell disgusting. Hipp Organic is the cheapest and it's organic (for what that's worth) and both my children tolerated it well.

But I think the Government are justified in banning formula advertising as as others have said, adverts don't tell you anything anyway. It would be nice however, to know what exactly "immunofortis" is - I was always intrigued. Anyone on here know?

It has been said before but I'll make the point again - formula advertising should be banned or at the very least restricted in all countries, not to "censor" it or make women who FF (through choice or necessity) feel bad, but to protect breastfeeding.

I KNOW that sounds insane but please don't disregard my post just yet.

Would you want to give birth in a hospital where the babies are kept in a nursery overnight and ignored until it is "feed time" or "change time"? Or where the staff push formula on mothers constantly whether they are doing well with breastfeeding or not? These two examples may sound extreme but they are not. Hospitals have been designed in the US with separate nurseries on purpose, the design sponsored and overseen by a formula company. These hospitals are still in use in this setup in many parts of America - in some places you have to fight to be allowed to have the baby in your room overnight. The situation with HCPs pushing formula constantly because they believe it to be better happens too, in certain countries. We should not be so naive to think it could not happen here - look at the attitude of many stressed, busy HCPs in hospitals here, look at how many women are failed in breastfeeding support. If formula wasn't pushed so heavily to HCPs, maybe they would attribute a little more importance to breastfeeding.

I am all for choice (and would fully support more information about different formulas being made available) but I think it should be informed choice, formula advertising does nothing to inform, it perpetuates myths about breastfeeding which cause women to doubt themselves and ultimately breastfeeding suffers.

Are you the same OP who has an identical thread going on Babycentre?

Pray tell, are the answers any different?

Would be interested to see the thread on babycentre, do you have a link Bucharest?

community.babycentre.co.uk/post/a5034595/wyoo_the_governments_encouragement_of_bf_and_not_ff

If professionals can't give unambiguous advice about BF - which is surely to be encouraged, why should FF be supported and encouraged, when so many (unicef, who, nhs etc) are telling us it's so bad?

I completely understand that many stop bfing due to lack of support, lack of knowledge, personal issues etc. but my own personal bugbear is that in a hospital, all HCP's that come into contact with new mothers should have the same advice to give.

In hospital with my 3rd DC, I was given 10 different sets of advice from 10 different midwives - all subject to their own personal beliefs. If it was my first dc, I would have been hugely confused, and probably given up.
In the bed opposite me, a woman was being told that as her newborn ds had had a bf 2 hours earlier, his screaming couldn't possibly be due to hunger, and perhaps she should consider FFing, as she clearly didn't have enough milk - this advice has been given to several people I know, with babies less than 3 days old, all who felt they had to rush out and buy all the equipment to FF, and I find it shocking.
How many more people could continue bfing, and not need information on FF, simply because they have been given terrible advice

IMO, money should be spent on improving bfing support, not to create a series of leaflets clarifying formula, when the majority of FFers wouldn't be interested.

Thanks Bucharest - not convinced it is "exactly" the same thread, but interesting nonetheless.

seaglass - what astounds me about that "advice" given to the woman you saw in hospital is that it doesn't even make sense! The baby has been fed 2 hours before - so it's "not hungry" - but if it's not hungry why would it need formula?? And surely if it is hungry (not that disastrous, surely?) it can have some more breast milk anyway. !

tryharder - 'I find it very sad when people say "I couldn't breastfeed" when in reality, they meant they faced difficulties which could have been overcome with the right knowledge and sufficient help.

I find this pompous and condescending. You don't know peoples circumstances. Some people simply cannot bf. These people need support too. Not all hospitals are the same - my experience was that ff was the last option a midwife would offer. If bf was not an option then you were asked which brand formula you wanted, told where you could get it and pretty much ignored for the rest of your stay.
Not good.

"I find this pompous and condescending. You don't know peoples circumstances. Some people simply cannot bf"

But physiologically about 98% can with the right sort of support. So the statement wasn't outrageous or completely off the mark.

yes sabire but I think tbf bf will stand more chance when people don't go through what I did.... with the right support I could have bf

"seaglass - what astounds me about that "advice" given to the woman you saw in hospital is that it doesn't even make sense! The baby has been fed 2 hours before - so it's "not hungry" - but if it's not hungry why would it need formula?? And surely if it is hungry (not that disastrous, surely?) it can have some more breast milk anyway. !"

That's what was shocking - the midwife's reasoning was that babies should be fed at 3 hourly intervals, and the fact that her baby was crying was because it hadn't taken in enough milk (sorry, didn't make that clear ) when my experience of BFing tells me that in the first few days, if not weeks, anything goes, and if that mother had been told that her baby would need feeding on demand, not to a set 3 hour routine, and not told that she didn't have enough milk for her baby, she probably would have carried on BFing, instead of panic buying formula.