To think adverts for and more info on formulas should be allowed?

[StrictlyBoogying]

I couldn't and didn't breastfeed either of my DCs for many reasons and when in hospital I was asked which formula I wanted DD1 to have. I had no idea which to choose and the staff weren't allowed to suggest or recommend one brand. I think it's ridiculous. People who want to make an informed decision on formula aren't being allowed to.

so fitzy, what, in these adverts you think should be allowed, would they tell you about formula feeding?

i mean, i stoped bf and started formula feeding and i can't say i had any trouble
you buy some formula, you read the packet.
it's pretty straight forward

santa dont associate me with puerile phrases like nazi i didn't say that

dont like those associations in this context

Scottishmummy you switch allegiances quickly from supporting FF promotion to "right to choose". As you will see from my original complaint it is the formula manufacturer/marketer I object to - not the formula feeding mother - this is probably as well, most of my friends in my grim northern town are ff mums. I do bf, they ff and we get along OK actually - no "reds under the beds". This is tedious reworking of the SAHM/WOHM debate except there is actually money to be made by persuading people that FF is the way to go........................

"yes, but even those risks are still negligible - small percentage points of risk. I'm not denying that there are risks - they are real - but they remain small. I don't think it helps BF to insist on these risks which people can't see manifested in any kind of statistically meaningful way in their lives, IYSWIM?"

Whether they are 'negligible' or not is a subjective judgement. If by 'negligible' you mean 'very small', it's also fair to argue that the risks of meningitis and SIDS are also negligible' to parents in this country. Doesn't stop us worrying about them, or doing everything we can to reduce the chance of our child succumbing to them.

Scottishmummy - yes I am speculating. Mainly because I have sat with groups of pregant women and had to endure many hours of listening to them talk about their choice of buggy. Yawn. I have never, ever heard women talk about formula in anything like as much detail or as at much length.

Ah, ok. It's not a "direct" effect, IMO, but a general, societal one, if that makes it any clearer. I'm not saying that if Annie FF, then her best friend Jenny can't, IYSWIM; but rather that the centrifugal force goes all in favour of FF.

Night. Urgh. Early mornings.

I was a bit confused by your lack of verbs ScottishMummy - the rest of my post was addressed at readers in general not you. But it is highly amusing that the ironic use of Nipple Nazi is now unacceptable

Have to go and um breastfeed my crying baby now. Would love to stay and waste my time um debate further

Santa don't misrepresent me i dont have any allegiance.you however seem quite perturbed

thisisyesterday - i ff and had no trouble either in taking a tub off the shelf and using it - hardly rocket science.
my point is that banning advertising prevents the developments associated with free market and freedom of choice. as stated previously it may encourage more research into the different formulas because at present there is no incentive for this to happen. why do research into your formula being best or the effects that is has on children when you are not allowed to use the information.

That was to Cornish, btw.

Yes, I know, sabire. But some people find some risks more acceptable than others.

Meningitis & SIDS: unacceptable.
Diabetes: acceptable.

I'm not trying to downplay the seriousness of diabetes, btw.

But we all make these kinds of risk assessments all the time.

Also, the "risk assessment" of FF is not down at an individual level, anyway. It's more of a societal decision/assessment. Our culture supports FF, so individuals do.

(I'm modulating my point about risk assessment: I seriously doubt that people choose to FF based on the kind of calculation I've suggested in my previous post).

"....developments associated with free markets and freedom of choice."

After the banks (with their free market ways) have cost the UK taxpayers £500billion you would be quite happy to have babies subjected to this? Really?

As we have all been saying formula is much of a muchness. Adverts are not going to change this. However, globally it has been proven that as soon as advertising starts then the rates of BF plummet. They advertise to sell more, not to inform. That is what keeps the shareholders happy. Not more intelligent, healthy babies but profit.

But SIDS is also more common in ff babies.

And breastcancer more common in non-breastfeeding mothers. There is also research suggesting it's more common in women not breastfed as babies.

Would also point out that the reason why the DOH recommendations on making up feeds were changed recently was because of concern about contamination of powdered formula, which has been linked to several cases of fatal meningitis, salmonella and blood poisoning in the UK, in the UK and in Europe.

Now surely that's unacceptable!

I FF both my two kids.. DS i tried to BF but couldnt.. he wouldnt latch no-matter what anyone tried.

DD i intended to FF from the start, then changed my mind at birth and battled to BF her for three weeks before a problem with my health forced us to stop and switch to FF.

I am very much in favour of BFing, i know its the best for baby.

I happen to think that TV advertising is pointless, but i see no problem in allowing midwives and health professionals to provide information about FF to mothers when it is REQUESTED.

As for the comments about 'they're all the same' no they aint.. there is enough of a difference in them that one brand caused my DS projectile vomiting while the other didnt.

I agree, sabire.

But the point I was making earlier was more directed towards how we might make BF more successful.

I suspect that pouring out statistics about (very slight) chances of minor or even severe illness will do nothing to improve BF rates, not least because if someone is already FF, they can't really "switch back" (or only rarely), and these kinds of information initiatives only make people feel guilty and defensive. It's like reverse preaching to the converted, IYSWIM.

Now, I'm not saying we should tread on eggshells, etc. etc. or be dishonest about the facts (cf. pooexplosions' earlier post); I'm just saying that pouring energies into providing positive support for women when they start out BF will probably do more than telling people (many of whom are FF and can't "undo" that) that FF increases risks of X, Y, and Z.

To return to the point of the OP: I think that advertising FF undermines BF and the genuine supporting of BF, hence why I am against it.

UnexpectedWasabi: I think what people mean by "they're all the same" is something more like "it's all the same until you try".

No Midwife could've told you which formula would make your DS projectile vomit.

And I'm pretty damn sure that no formula company would advertise itself as the one which would make your DS projectile vomit.

It was trial and error, I'm afraid. No amount of "choice" or "information" could've helped you, I fear.

I intended to BF DS, but it just didn't work, I tried and tried, BF counsellors, midwife visits, everything. My milk just didn't come in.

I resisted FF him, but it had to be done, when I put him on FF thankfully he thrived, at last he was being fed, and stopped losing weight.

When I had to dash to the shop to get the FF, I just stood there and picked the one that said 'the closest thing to Breast Milk on the can'. I had absolutely NO IDEA what to look for, which one to buy and it was all pretty stressful.

What ELSE could I, or anyone else in my postion have done? Ask a Midwife which brand? No. Ask MN? Hell NO!, i'd be barbequed.

It really pisses me off when everyones starts to shit kick other women for FF when they had no other flaming option.

Oh yes and despite my having FF him, my DS has never been ill, he'll be 4 at Xmas, and has never been to the Dr, not once. [touch wood emoticon]

OK so we all know BF is the best, and what we are all supposed to do... but perhaps nobody told my norks?

I think that there should be less shame about formula feeding and definately more unbiased information via HV etc.

I think it would be a mistake to advertise it on tv as many mums would be seduced without thinking about bf but More support for ff aswell as bf would be great.

Many ff mums feel bad enough as it is without the confusion.

Also more bf support would be great.

YANBU

We live in a country with free speech but formula ads should mabe be vetted and it should be made clear that it is an alternativ eto breast milk if breast feeding dosn't work out.

I did change my mind afetr a bit of thought!

I'm a HCP and one of the formula companies sent me some of their 'educational' material for HCPs.

It is simply an advert. I normally throw these things straight in the recycling but I kept this to see what guf they were spouting.

I have lots of training and experience in critical appraisal of clinical studies. I don't trust formula companies in the same way I don't trust drug companies to tell you the truth about their products.

Out of interest those of you who want comparator studies to be done with different formulae (pedant) , what exactly do you want them to compare? What would help you make a choice?

I don't support formula advertising for the same reason I don't support direct to patient advertising of prescription only medicines. I don't trust the drug/formula company to give information to patients/parents that is objective.

There are whole journals dedicated to this kind of marketing and how to make it more effective.

Just to add more to the conspiracy theory. I have only done one piece of work recently on infant feeding but the letter was addressed to SofaKing - Infant Feeding Advisor. This is not my job title. All I can think is that local reps have been trawling the minutes of the meeting, which are in the public domain, where this work was discussed. I have been stalked! This happens regularly where companies try to influence those in the NHS whom they perceive as influential.

Disclaimer - I have FF one DC and BF my other DC. I buy whichever formula takes my fancy as DS2 has so little of it and hasn't showed a preference.

All you ladies saying bf is well supported are making generalized comments are wrong.

I was 17 having ds I was discharged from hospital at 17 once discharged my support ended. I was sent home with no instruction as to how to sort out problems and by the time my hv came on day 10 I had thrush and mastitus due to lack of information. There is no bf councillor that serves the hospital I went too.

All the women I know ff there children and are doing so out of choice they constantly question as to why I am bothering to bf.

My ds is 31/2 now and I have met only one other bf lady who lives in my town. So ff is not always done because of no other choice and the world you ladies speak off is obviously what banning advertises and giving more support to bf has made possible and has yet to meet my area. If you take away all these measures then bf will probably go back to how it still is in my area and then rates will drop to how they were before all the support was made available to bf mothers.

Also most ff have support from family members who ff before bf was promoted as much where as you are hard pushed to find someone who had children more than 20 years ago who bf.

I live in Wales by the way I do think that mw should be able to give adequate support and Information to someone who is ff. But I don't agree with adverts they work, if they didn't they would not do it. Some people said that bf should also be advertised but who is going to pay for it, no one, as there is no profit to be gained through breast milk. So the only people who could pay are the government and that would mean raising taxes.

YANBU

Haven't read all the posts. It's the usual deja vu with the 'formula is Satan's arse water'

Agree with slushy06.

One example of the galloping lack of even empathy I received was: I found it easier to bf with my top half naked. A nurse/ midwife walked in and visibly recoiled. She said 'You're not doing that properly'. No help or advice.

I fed both mine SMA because that's what was available in both hospitals.

They are 3 and 4 now. I'm still waiting for them to die horribly of some formula related disease.....