to be annoyed with the constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse?

[morningpaper]

Now then, all this criticism of Samaritan's purse: Of COURSE it's proselytising, that what's ALL Christian Aid charities are about, by definition. It's that building the kingdom of God thing, isn't it?

Nonetheless, I have friends who drive lorries out to Romania in the name of 'Christian mission': they preach and they set up playgrounds or something or other. I have other friends that go out and dig wells / set up schools in South America and Peru (ermmm amy be same sort of area there, geography not my strong point). I have another friend who runs a Christian Orphanage in India.And I'm sure that in the 20 squillion of boxes that are delivered all over the world, there are some abuses of that remit.

But this constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse is getting a bit hysterical IMO. Why WOULD the bulk of the money for Samaritan's Purse go "the needy"? It's got to be spent shipping your bloody idiot boxes that are the only way they can get people to donate because it makes them feel better about themselves when they can TOUCH THE STUFF THEY ARE SENDING.

All this criticism is very depressing. If you've got a more positive alternative then perhaps suggest that, but until people are prepared to part with cash for people who really NEED it, then these sorts of schemes are going to be much needed.

Saying about a webchat, there was someone from SP on here earlier today. But she tried to herself from that Operation Christmas child newsletter by saying that is the States and it's different in UK.

Well paisleyleaf it IS a massive organisation and it will be far removed from what goes on in the states

got to go but this bit "Many children are also invited to enroll in a 10-lesson follow-up Bible study program" was the dodgy bit iirc.

It's NOT okay to proselytize to children imo. Not at all. And to connect, in any way, the proselytizing ito a gift which the children are probably desperate for (in the way that all chidlren are desp for presents) is simply bribery.

Bribing children is baaad.

they have a surprisingly large amount of money (boxes apart) for a smallish operation. i expect the boxes are a very convenient way for them to build their organisation - see their aims of developing links between churches etc. they have big plans.

mp i do see what you mean about negativity but i prefer to have things out in the open and this isn't. maybe more about our own ignorance of how religious groups work than any sinister intent by the evangelists.

MP - can you imagine how differently the NT would read if Jesus had listened to all he had to say and pressurised them to become Christians on the back of what he'd done for them?

OK most of them did follow him afterwards - but the way I read the bible is that it was their choice afterwards - not one that Jesus pressurised them into.

I swear on my children's lives I said it before you fished! I thought it was most excellent.

As there seems to be a lot of interest on the pros and cons of SP can I please hijack the thread for one minute to publicise a similar shoebox appeal but one that does not evangelise. They specificly do not do it.

I disliked what I read about SP 2 years so I started to give to a charity called link romania.

Info about the charity generally:

www.linkromania.co.uk/about-link-romania

They work with some of the poorest people in Romania, Moldovia etc. They have several ventures that run all year round - soup kitchens, sponsoring families etc. They are a very small charity but I feel do a great job. I really had n't realised how destitute and near to not surviving some families are (I am talking living on gruel in unheated stone huts etc).

They have a Xmas shoe box appeal but it is for the whole family - often parents, kids, grandparents etc all living together in one freezing room so the idea is to give a bit of cheer to all. When I have read some of the stories about how over the moon they are when they basically receive what we consider to be hardly anything it is really heart breaking but good at the same time.

Here is main index about the shoe box appeal which links to other pages about how to get involved (where it says registration closed it means for people that act as the centre points for collecting in the shoe boxes not for those that want to make up and give the shoe boxes):

www.linkromania.co.uk/shoebox-appeal

If you want any more info please get in touch - there is lots of info on their website.

www.shoebox.rotary1280.org/ - perhaps we could agree then, that if we beat our headmasters over the head, we could suggest this as an alternative?

Plus, there is so much dross coming into schools from every angle. Supermarkets getting us to buy stuff for points; book clubs (with the crappest of books) and whatever-the-fuck-else marketing tat to children, using our children as billboards in exchange for tiny commissions to school; fifth-rate authors supplementing their money-free career; a thousand gimmicky charity schemes in place to the simple quiet business of giving a donation.

Schools are a maelstom of this stuff. So much noise and distraction.

No, well, that's Paul innit. With his weird gift of tongues Pentecostal malarky.

But MP, I've found links (one I put on that thread and the one here) that show the UK is also committed to the 'message'.

sorry stresss, cross-posted there, although that scheme seems to be finished for this year?

Thanks Scummy, you know, it just came to me, and I wanted to share. Let's all talk about me a bit more.

That link I gave earlier gives
One child one World
link Romania
Aquabox
Oxfam unwrapped
as some of their alternatives

sorry... playing the card on this one... but 100x... lovely to see you!

yes what I was advertising was Link Romania.

As I explained in my first post the shoe box apeal is NOT closed for this year - where it says registration closed it does not mean you can not donate a shoe box still it means for people that act as the centre points for collecting in the shoe boxes not for those that want to make up and give the shoe boxes. If a school decides to support the scheme I am sure they will make an exception and set them up as a new collector too and come and collect all the boxes.

Here is the link to info about the appeal:

www.linkromania.co.uk/shoebox-appeal

I haven't had time to read all of the posts.

I have just organised this collection for my school. I didn't know any of this. I liked the idea of children giving presents (they are so used to getting that to give seemed so much more conrete for them)

Children don't 'get' really giving money (they don't have the same sense of it yet) However giving a box of gifts is so much more meaningful for them.

Is it really so so bad? (I am an atheist who has no problem supporting religious movements, but hates any form of coersion.)

Whay can't it be just about giving???

GG: Is it so bad? Just read their newsletter and decide for yourself.

Just thought I'd shamelessly repeat my own post because I can't see my point raised anywhere else and it got lost in a flurry of exegesis.

"I don't like the hidden evangelism either. But I also find it a bit bonkers to use tons of fossil fuels to transport stuff all over the globe. Yes, it's wonderful for kids to get a present - and we all like the warm virtuous glow that we get from giving something we don't need or want to someone less fortunate than ourselves. But once we've factored in the carbon footprint and the effect on the possibly faltering economies of the receiving countries it all starts to look a bit dodgy."

Btw, people who like the shoebox thing bacause it seems like a good way to introduce children to the idea of doing something for others who are in great need, this year's Blue Peter Appeal is pretty good. (Must find some old t shirts for my boys to use, actually...)

If people like the idea of their kids DOING something for others how about this for a novel idea.

Give up sweets/toys/treats for Lent/Advent/November or whatever and put the money in a box to give to the charity of your choice. Get the kids to decorate the box if you wnat to add the personal touch.

Simples

oh yes about the carbon footprint seeker. And the whole business of foisting the scraps of our consumerist culture on people elsewhere, instead of financial support, is uncomfortable. They are supposed to take our tat along with our religious culture. I can't see how it teaches our own children more more than the idea that people in poorer countries are striving towards a 'leftovers' version of western culture.

Really interesting thread and I wish I'd read it a week ago.
My DD's school ran the SP shoebox appeal and while I had A LOT of misgivings, I decided to do 2 shoeboxes, as I think the idea of children receiving a gift is a nice one and last year we did the same thing with a secular charity in Holland and I felt it was nice for the DCs to do it again - it's a good way for them to learn about other people having less than them, I think.
(point taken about the fossil fuels needed to transport these shoeboxes around though)

However, my misgivings were about the Christian nature of the charity - in the leaflet handed out at DD's school they mention that children will also get a bible story book etc, and now I read that there is SO MUCH MORE to the Christian nature of their work.

I will talk to the headteacher and suggest either the rotary club or just giving money to Wateraid next year.

Just came across an www.worldmag.com/articles/16027|article about the leader of this group. He apparently eared $1.2 last year.

corrected link to article www.worldmag.com/articles/16027