to be annoyed with the constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse?

[morningpaper]

Now then, all this criticism of Samaritan's purse: Of COURSE it's proselytising, that what's ALL Christian Aid charities are about, by definition. It's that building the kingdom of God thing, isn't it?

Nonetheless, I have friends who drive lorries out to Romania in the name of 'Christian mission': they preach and they set up playgrounds or something or other. I have other friends that go out and dig wells / set up schools in South America and Peru (ermmm amy be same sort of area there, geography not my strong point). I have another friend who runs a Christian Orphanage in India.And I'm sure that in the 20 squillion of boxes that are delivered all over the world, there are some abuses of that remit.

But this constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse is getting a bit hysterical IMO. Why WOULD the bulk of the money for Samaritan's Purse go "the needy"? It's got to be spent shipping your bloody idiot boxes that are the only way they can get people to donate because it makes them feel better about themselves when they can TOUCH THE STUFF THEY ARE SENDING.

All this criticism is very depressing. If you've got a more positive alternative then perhaps suggest that, but until people are prepared to part with cash for people who really NEED it, then these sorts of schemes are going to be much needed.

But it's kind of hard to get the facts because the UK version presents itself very differently from the US version, who are obviously more comfortable in their right wing evangalism.

I understand your frustration, because you see good people doing a good thing. They're like the Sally Army or something.

But it's also okay to object on the grounds of feeling uncomfortable about christian evangalism, if you're not a christian

oh okay then re accounts.

MP - what do you think the facts are? How much evangelizing is there? I had read that children had to come and listen to sermon before getting boxes. Am prepared to be wrong butg would like to know what you think IS going on.

MP, from their own site:

"For our church partners across Asia, Africa, Eastern Europe, and Latin America, the shoe box gifts are a powerful tool for sharing the life-changing message of Jesus Christ.

...

Along with their shoe box gifts, children are given colorful storybooks that present God?s plan of salvation in their local language.

We provide churches with a 12-part Bible study to teach children about the Gospel, invite them to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, and train them to share their faith with family and friends."

"...train them to share their faith with family and friends" is the bit I hate. Recruiting children to undermine their family-members' value system? Reminds me of children turning in their parents in '1984'. Maybe it is not so bad as that, but I would still prefer to give to a Christian charity that wasn't even a bit like that.

FWIW I have no qualms about supporting Christian Organisations that based their support on faith - in less lean times we sponsored a child through Compassion - a Christian sponsorship organisation. Difference is that they make it very clear from the outset how they operate in the places they support children.

Sorry my bible classes bit was quoted from a canadian article. SHould have had quotes possibly

I don't like The Salvation Army either.

1. Have seen SP at work in Africa (floods) and they were INSANELY hopeless - shipped in a brand new land rover at vast expense, whizzed around town with lots of young white Christians in it; then hired a helicopter to go on an entirely unnecessary trip to see what the floods looked like, didn't take enough fuel, had to land and couldn't get back for days. Slunk off with tails between legs, never seen again. Whole shenanigan must have cost many tens of thousands of pounds for ZERO benefit. So not convinced by the great humanitarian works business.

1. Dealing with poverty ISN'T easy, and any scheme ('change a life for just £5 a month', 'send a box and touch a child' etc. etc.) peddles a really dangerous message. So I totally disagree with the idea that these boxes - ANY boxes - can 'actively show them in a very real and tangible way how they can personally take action against poverty'.

1. Samaritans Purse isn't the only organisation that hides its religious credentials from possible donors, but it's a prime offender. It also isn't as clearly Christian as TearFund, World Vision, Christian Aid, CAFOD etc. AND, unlike all of them, it does - I believe - actively proselytise.

Lots of religious charities are not proselytising at all, actually. They aren't out to build kingdoms of God but to help those in desperate need, no religious strings attached. Cafod, Red Cross and Crescent, Christian Aid, for example. All do excellent work, im(atheist)o. Samaritan's Purse should look and learn. In the meantime I'm glad that their questionable tactics and hidden agenda are highlighted on mumsnet and elsewhere.

Oh fgs I've started about six new threads in AIBU now because all the buttons are new.

And NOONE has picked up on my rather lovely samaritan analogy. I'm going to flounce.

"Traditional religions and occult practices are common in this part of Africa, but many people in Mimbulu have been delivered from spiritual darkness ... "

Sure if you are a Christian you see value in others also becoming Christian, but it is possible to do that without regarding non-Christian religion as spiritual darkness. Plus, erosion of traditional belief functions as an erosion of a culture's autonomy in the face of US hegemony. This is an organisation that runs into Iraq right on the coatails of an invading army.

I don't KNOW what the facts are, but their literature about it looks very innocuous

That quote deadworm sounds like bog-standard church warbling

I don't know where the forced Bible study class thing comes from

My concern is that, as educated middle class laydees, rushing into schools and talking about the headmaster 'tearing down posters' once they were informed of the 'true nature' of the enterprise (as I read earlier) I find rather cringe-y

If you came up with a viable alternative then I wouldn't object - I just dislike the negative vibe around it; so much righteous energy going into something rather negative. What's the positive side, here?

"I had read that children had to come and listen to sermon before getting boxes."

Onebat - that's exactly why my acquaintance is no longer involved with them.

"Mary's Meals is also a Christian organisation"

Fine. I have no probs giving to a Christain organisation doing great humanitarian work.

littlefrog: I like all your points, particularly 2: but how do we teach little children that THEY CAN CHANGE THE WORLD?

Well said Littlefrog.That's another of my issues with these boxes that simply throwing money and gifts at people isn't how we'll solve the problem of poverty, when there are so many other factors that continue the cycle of poverty.

I agree that it can help children to think of others and to consider their needs, and that's all very well with young children but charity has to go beyond that I think and look at the wider issues and attempt to tackle those.

"Did he say 'I'll give you a ride on my donkey if you read this pamphlet on Samaria? If you won't read my farking pamphlet, you are back in the ditch mate.'

No, he did not."

Love it, ahundredtimes.

this site has a link on the left to alternative organisations.
It also says: "From a letter from Samaritan's Purse to an evangelical supporter of OCC concerned that they were not fulfilling their evangelising mission:

"Please be assured that the commitment of Samaritan's Purse to evangelism is as strong as ever.

Christian literature is not banned from Operation Christmas Child shoeboxes in the United Kingdom or any other sending country. However, there is a difference in the way the boxes are processed in the U.K. for overseas shipment. The U.K. program removes all religious items (Christian as well as other religions) and forwards any Christian literature to our National Leadership Teams working in countries where shoebox gifts are distributed, so the Christian literature can be used with children through the local church.

Samaritan's Purse staff in the U.K. is dedicated, as we all are, to ensuring that Christian literature given by donors is used in effective ministry outreach to children through Operation Christmas Child.

The Gospel is also presented locally as part of the distribution of the gifts, and wherever possible, children are offered a Gospel storybook written in their own language called The Greatest Gift of All. Many children are also invited to enroll in a 10-lesson follow-up Bible study program, and upon completion receive a New Testament as a graduation gift."

Now she wants a positive side?

Erm. .

there you are, 100x

I absolutely swear I wrote that before you went fishing for the compliment as well!

Oh come on MP. A whole load of schools have been manipulated into giving to a wealthy US evangelising orgsanisation with a big publicity budget. Of course parents are entitled to feel angry about it, regardless of whether they give time or money to an alternative (though of course better if they do).

It's odd, I had never heard of Samaritans Purse before coming on MN....

I am now going to have to do some research on this organisation, especially as people seem to feel so passionately about their views.

On the surface, from reading this thread only (and hence currently my only source of knowledge) I wouldn't be comfortable supporting SP as I cannot abide by people imposing their beliefs on others.

But as I say - off to so some research before commiting to that comment!

Can anyone offer some good, reliable sources/links please (to save me trawling Google for hours - I know lazy and apologies for that!)

Schools give ANYTHING a massive publicity inroad IME - pick your mission and go

Cor - Sorry! Have just seen in my extreme slowness of reading and posting before refreshing I see there are already some links

I fished scummy, I fished, and you TOOK and I can't tell you how much I love you for it.

Well. I can't for the life of me think why we would tell our children that they can change the world? That'd be nonsense.