to be annoyed with the constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse?

[morningpaper]

Now then, all this criticism of Samaritan's purse: Of COURSE it's proselytising, that what's ALL Christian Aid charities are about, by definition. It's that building the kingdom of God thing, isn't it?

Nonetheless, I have friends who drive lorries out to Romania in the name of 'Christian mission': they preach and they set up playgrounds or something or other. I have other friends that go out and dig wells / set up schools in South America and Peru (ermmm amy be same sort of area there, geography not my strong point). I have another friend who runs a Christian Orphanage in India.And I'm sure that in the 20 squillion of boxes that are delivered all over the world, there are some abuses of that remit.

But this constant criticism of Samaritan's Purse is getting a bit hysterical IMO. Why WOULD the bulk of the money for Samaritan's Purse go "the needy"? It's got to be spent shipping your bloody idiot boxes that are the only way they can get people to donate because it makes them feel better about themselves when they can TOUCH THE STUFF THEY ARE SENDING.

All this criticism is very depressing. If you've got a more positive alternative then perhaps suggest that, but until people are prepared to part with cash for people who really NEED it, then these sorts of schemes are going to be much needed.

I would rather my child contribute to a shoebox scheme that didn't have strings attached. And that doesn't pick and choose its recipients on grounds of religious persuasion (which, let's face it, as a child, we don't have much control over).

And you may want to read the wiki page on them. An extract:
Franklin Graham, the head of Samaritan's Purse, was criticized for calling Islam "a wicked religion,"[23] leading to opposition campaigns by Islamic leaders.[24] In the UK criticism has come from prominent Christian clergy, such as Rev Giles Fraser, as well as from Muslim groups[25], Church groups[26] and concerned individuals in the UK[27] and Canada[28]

The accounts for Samaritan's Purse UK for 2006 show a turn over in excess of £22 million..[29] Of this total, £1.3 million were disbursed on relief and aid projects with the balance spent on promotion and operations associated with the evangelical project Operation Christmas Child.

I wonder where the rest of the money goes?

In conclusion, yes MP, YAB(unusually)U.

latest accounts well produced.

Do we have an alternative that school children can do, which actively shows them in a very real and tangible way how they can personally take action against poverty?

(Bearing in mind that local refuges and 'troops' in this area won't accept gifts as they are already drowning under the weight of cup-a-soups)

MP: the main problem many of us have with this bunch of fuckwitted, dishonest, crap-peddling wankers is that they are downplaying the Christian evangelism which is their main priority in order to take money/goods from Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Jewish and atheist families by deception, to fund their agenda which is actively hostile to Islam, Hinduism, etc. If they were upfront about what they do then people would have the option of donating or not donating, as it is, they are conning people.

I know somoene who was involved in setting up the operation Christmas child here in the UK when they first started out. They are no longer a part of it as they don't feel that their current system of enroling recipients in bible study classes (and in some cases that they have personally witnessed basically been told "come to bible classes or don't get the box ")

I'm all for evengalism, I'm all for giving gifts to the needy - I'm not ramming Christianity down someones throat in exchange for a nicer Christmas.

WHerever it is legal to do so they also insist thet the recipients go to a christian rally where the word of the lord is proclaimed.

No pressure then, just some literature

peace and goodwill between people is lovely, and perfectly poss between Christians and members of other religions. Even atheists. I like peace and goodwill, for example

"Do we have an alternative that school children can do"

I'm sure I remember a link to one such organisation on one of the several previous Christmasses this came up and was discussed on MN. I can't rem,ember what is was and can't be arsed to try to find it with the search facility.

Yes the key is in the name of the organisation. But didn't the Good Samaritan pick up the Gallilean and take him on his donkey to the inn? And didn't he help him out - this sworn enemy - without thought of recompense or any expectation?

Did he say 'I'll give you a ride on my donkey if you read this pamphlet on Samaria? If you won't read my farking pamphlet, you are back in the ditch mate.'

No, he did not.

He understood that charity is giving without expectation, without strings, at the point of need.

This is why I don't like their shoebox business. It's wrong. If you're not a christian, why support it? If you are, go ahead but if not support Water Aid or other non religious charities.

Their accounts are interesting, but which point are you criticising exactly?

The accounts for Samaritan's Purse UK for 2006 show a turn over in excess of £22 million..[29] Of this total, £1.3 million were disbursed on relief and aid projects with the balance spent on promotion and operations associated with the evangelical project Operation Christmas Child.

An alternative that has been mentioned on MN is the scheme called Mary's Meals, which runs a 'Backpack Project' similar to the shoebox thing.

A better alternative is to give money and not set up schemes which are structured as much for the whims of the giver as for the receiver.

The shoebox thing is just more background noise at school. We buy too much stuff and give the surplus away so we can buy more stuff; and we rope children in.

I think that enticing the children to a bible class is wrong.
It's disrespectful to their own creed and culture.

And quite frankly I think it's a lot of waffle too.

I don't like the hidden evangelism either. But I also find it a bit bonkers to use tons of fossil fuels to transport stuff all over the globe. Yes, it's wonderful for kids to get a present - and we all like the warm virtuous glow that we get from giving something we don't need or want to someone less fortunate than ourselves. But once we've factored in the carbon footprint and the effect on the possibly faltering economies of the receiving countries it all starts to look a bit dodgy.

I don't see that there is any evidence for the 'bible study classes etc'. Check their accounts - they do a vast amount of humanitarian aid. Do you really think they are organising Bible study classes? E.g. (I read something like this) they provided water for 27,000 people after one humanitarian disaster, and sent ONE paid member of staff over. Do you think s/he was running Bible classes for all 27,000 people before handing out a glass of water?

I don't mind these claims being backed up with FACTS but I just see a lot of SPIN here.

MP, some rotary clubs do shoebox schemes as an alternative
and someone linked earlier today to a 'back pack' scheme to do with Mary's meals. I don't know what they're like I didn't look properly.
it would be good if there were more alternatives
(BluePeter were good for this sort of thing)

the Rotary Club do something similar.

If you use Google rather than the MN search you can find all sorts.

OBM the 22 million included c. 20 million which was GIFTS IN KIND i.e. the shoeboxes. Not actual CASH.

When did MN change? I keep hitting 'Start a New Thread' when I only want to add a message.

they count the value of the content of boxes in their turnover at £18m so do disregard that. also note that accounts cover 15m so a longer accounting period than usual.

MP - this thread isn't about their other work is it? It's about their Christmas appeal. Where they do push (very hard) the Christian message.

I have contributed to a number of these discussions and believe that SP has infiltrated our schools by hiding its aims.

Their material looks innocuous enough. Their supporters say that they state that they are a Christian organisation. But nobody objects to their Christianity.

What we object to is their condemnation of other religions and use material gifts as part of a campaign to undermine local traditions and convert children to Christianity. NONE OF THE MATERIAL THEY SEND INTO SCHOOLS EXPLAINS THIS. So they are using our kids as unwitting conscripts in their crusade.

I appeal to all parents who care about SP to speak to their schools. I printed out their newsletter and took it to school. When I showed it to the headteacher, she was HORRIFIED and dropped SP on the spot. She thanked me for alerting the school and sent a letter home telling parents that the school is looking for another charity to send the boxes to.

I think that inviting SP to do a web chat on mumsnet is a great idea. I for one would like to hear their explanations of Franklin Graham's statements on Islam, Hinduism, Hurricane Katrina and nuclear weapons. I would like to get their line by line reaction to Franklin Graham's newsletter.
We should also invite the press to cover this debate. Too many people have given SP the benefit of the doubt. Their actual beliefs aims and methods need to be exposed.

Mary's Meals is also a Christian organisation

They probably make them say Grace