to think that the average debating ability of Mumsnetters has dropped considerably over the past year?

[colditz]

I was browsing through some old threads earlier, and the general standard of debate has dropped. People here used to be able to follow a thread and give a pertinent response, backed up with careful research. Lately the response is likely to be completely unrelated to the original point, and passive-aggressive to boot.

Southeastastra - or just leave.

dunno eachpeach, i'm not sure. sometimes i think that the shit does have to hit the fan big-time for people to act, particularly women who prefer to be in denial. but i appreciate that is informed by my own experiences with my friend, i thought we were helping her at the time but in retrospect we just helped her limp from crisis to crisis.

exactly. Liven it up or leave.

I think the value of hitting rock bottom is that that is the place where you finally can take no more in an abusive situation and you make the decision to leave.

Therefore it's positive to hit the bottom.

Helping someone survive and not reach rock bottom actually prolongs their agony.

(Just explaining...not necessarily my view)

people need to be bold and start threads more

Can you, on a forum, actually prevent someone from hitting rock bottom if that's where RL's taking them? Or are you just reminding them - as often as you think you can get away with - that they have other choices no matter what their situation? It's not like we're popping round with camouflage foundation for bruises, is it?

Eppm - may I just barge in (I know you are addressing Aitch) but there is a pov that supporting = enabling, and not, ultimately, of much help. Now that is a point I have seen debated on here without too much handbag swinging. It was an interesting thread.

Frangi - sorry to see you go. We will all leave one day. Hope you find a site that suits you better.

good question. hmm, again influenced by my experiences with my friend, i'd say that abusive relationships can be incredibly complex and that sometimes the women can be attention-seeking and essentially unwilling to confront their situation. mn i imagine can be a great valve, as well as offering lots of 'poor you' attention and sympathy.

bibbity - what else can you do other than not post? WA themselves have a policy to enable/empower - even if it means empowering someone to make another mistake. I haven't seen any threads so far where someone said 'oh he's hitting the kids too but you're still a great mother'. What sort of thing do you have in mind?

Colditz - what were some of the old and interesting threads to which you refer then?

Thanks.

Why should I liven it up or leave?

Should I entirely solve the economic crisis in this country or leave?

Should I blindly accept a substandard education at a child's school or whip him out of the school?

Am I not even allowed to comment on something I spend a lot of my time doing?

And if not - tell me why I'm not.

But does MN assist people in avoiding confronting their situation? I'm thinking Hedgewitch here...

Can't we have a "oh fgs just leave him" emoticon? Twould save so much typing.

Mumsnet used to feel irreverent and amusing; somwehere nice to creep off to of an evening. In an email to me recently another Mumsnetter described Mumsnet as now being all trolls and tragedy.

I'm not sure Mumsnet knows what it is any more.

I choose not to post.

(That's why I was getting my coat Colditz. Refuse to be incisive/witty/whatever the other one was )

and if i'm truly honest about my trying to help my pal i also got something out of it, in that i was Doing A Good Thing. which i'm not sure the cohort of mners who routinely support are confronting about themselves. (i'm not actually thinking of either eppp or perardua here i should say).

Swedes - I think it's gone the way of all large things - mainstream and middling.

yup, swedes, i feel similarly, but i do think that it's all still there, just harder to find cos of the size. and i do completely understand why all the pals threads exist but i wish they didn't as i find they make the problem worse.