to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

I used to live in an area in which fitted the catogories that LeQueen set out perfectly.

I am now ashamed to say that we were sucked into it all. I look back on how I was five years ago and I want to travel back in time to kick myself up the arse, materialistic, social climbing dumb sod that I was (NOT talking about other people who choose the private route here, just me!).

There were a ton of private schools in the area, but only really one contender for nusery/primary - and it was in one of the royal Castles no less, so there were a lot of social climbing parents who thought they had accended to royal status themselves. Ds got a place at that school at 3 and a half, we had put his name down at birth...We lasted 4 weeks. The school that everybody who was anybody raved about was god-awful. It turns out there were alot of unhappy parents, but no on would dare say anything, or pull thier kids out as it was social death.

(FWIW, ds is now educated at at the most exclusive private school in my area. Only one pupil per class, field trips everyday, and the one teacher really seems to like him. It's called 'my kitchen table' ).

Oh fuck off.

"delightful children" "buffoon like children"

Do you live in an Enid Blyton novel ?

PMSL at Fibilou

I can understand where you're coming from with this, only my experience is with the local state schools.
We are very lucky to have some really good state primary schools around us, and my children started at one, which had a very good academic reputation, however, I found that I didn't fit in with other mothers, and my children, because they were not considered academic, were written off by their teachers.
Most of the other parents and children would fit into LeQueen's number 2 category, most of the children were privately tutored outside the school, as the parents were very competitive, and couldn't bear that their perfect child wasn't as good as their next door neighbours child.
Nearly all the parents were aspiring to be something they were not.
On the rare occasion that we invited buffoon like children little darlings round for tea, they were rude little monsters, used to havng their every whim pandered to by their doting parents.
We have since moved to a smaller school 2 miles away from the first, the only difference being that it seems to serve the local farming community, rather than aspirational wannabee's. The children are really lovely, well behaved, and welcome at my house any time they want

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LeQueen, another one who thinks your categories are ridiculous as much it shows up your own insecurities. Since when does your attending a private school make your feeble attempt to stereotype private school parents the end all and be all?

Is it so difficult to swallow that there are parents who use private school who are absolutely normal, whichever class they might belong to.

As for OP, not sure where you had your education but you are not making any sense at all.

You think the higher quality private schools are more pricey. But how does being able to afford a higher quality private school ensure a better education? Surely that are thick posh children as there are thick aspirational middle class children. Money does not come into this.

Perhaps all this thread shows is how much you worship what you deem to be the upper class.

The best thing to come out of this thread is to find out that Xenia is back.

My DB who is now a physics teacher started teaching in a private school before even starting his PGCE -and that was only about 6 years ago.

Message withdrawn

"It's not too hot on the results side," he said to his chum. "But they do turn out such awfully nice gels."

I'm struggling to see anything wrong with that. So it's OK to choose a state school because you value its community strengths, social mix etc over academics, but it is automatically a waste of money to choose a private school which isn't particularly academic but can offer your child an environment you consider beneficial to their character? Double standards, as usual.

Many of my friends don't understand why I am intent on sending DS to the (not at all famous, only been going for 50 years, quite small) independent prep school rather than the perfectly adequate state C of E primary. I don't like to point out that I'm looking at post 11, when they are all desperately going to be trying to get their children into the only state school for miles which gets more than 50% A-C at GCSEs (applications about 5:1 per place) and DS will hopefully progress naturally into the upper school (which despite being completely non selective, got 95% A-C last year).

As you know nothing about me Lequeen I'll tell you, save you assuming you do know. DH was privately educated (new money, sorry), my very best friend was privately educated. My second best friend was educated up to end of prep school. I nannied for four families who privately educated all of their children. I know it's hard to swallow the idea of the lower orders knowing anything about private education but I know enough. Enough to know that none of the families I know fall into any of your categories. I have no resentment, jealousy or regret that I wasn't privately educated. I am perfectly happy with my convent school education thanks.

So sorry, your arguments are still smug, snotnosed nonsense. When you've met every single privately educated person in the world and compiled some stats then I might take some notice. Till then I'll stick with my original observation.

No one goes to state schools in my family. I just went to find the categories mentioned:

"LeQueen was privately educated herself from the age of 10.

In my experience parents who send their children to private/independent school fall into 3 catergories.

1. Those who are usually fairly wealthy, own a big (usually shabby) country home complete with paddocks and stables. They're not remotely pretentious, and have cheap Tesco mugs, nestling next to some crested porcelain in their kitchen cupboard. They send their children to an independent school because they were privately educated, as were their grandparents and great-grandparents etc.

1. Those who are wealthy, own a big (immaculately decorated) house. They have copious amounts of perfectly matching John Lewis crockery and have a real penchant for side plates, cake forks and napkins et al. They think a private education will magically confer class or breeding on their children. The parents themselves went to the local comprehensive, and have always been careful to speak with received pronunciation. Although it doesn't quite come naturally to them.

1. A small percentage who aren't wealthy, and don't live in a big house because they pay every penny on school fees. But desperately want a first class education for their children."

It's very different in NW London. But you certainly get the first time buyer nouveaue riche plus the first time buyer second generation immigrants - all the money from the corner shop or pharmacy going into the children's education because education above all else is prized (and so it should be ) and then a load of professionals like me who went ourselves to fee paying schools and can afford it and don't really know anyone whose children goes to a state school anyway and why go to a state school even the Bucks grammars if you can get into Haberdashers, North London C etc etc

But yes, there are some not so good private schools around, some which are worse than some state schools so you do need to be careful and do your homework. You might want round here the Purcell school if you have a music genius who will do nothing but music or you might prefer for your musical child music in a good day independent and a music scholarship to an Oxbridge college. Or you might want a school which does well for the thicker child.

YOu probably don't want my nearest comp - "GCSE results have improved at ..... School due to the hard work of the students and teachers. The five or more A-C grades including English and Maths pass rate rose by 12 points to 34 per cent and the number of students who achieved five or more A-C grades overall was 56 per cent."

So 34% A* to C compared with 90% or whatever my children's schools get.

But Xenia, presumably your children's schools are selective?

Xenia

I am in NW London too and believe me most people I know would happily send their children to the Grammars or similar above Habs and NLCS if they get in. We all know that they're brilliant schools but when you've the choice of somewhere like JFS, which obviously not all of us do, but which gets 85% A&B grades at A level and has facilities and pastoral care to compare to Habs etc then I am not sure we'd be able to turn it down. Likewise if we get QE boys or Henrietta Barnet we'll be beside ourselves. We are all sitting our kids for Habs, City, NLCS, UCS etc but are begging hoping praying and tutoring for the state options to come up trumps.

An awful lot of private schools achieve those kinds of results without being selective, for example the school I plan to send DS to.

i live in south wales. i went to one of the roughest state schools on the west of my city and my OH went to the eastern equivalent. he has a very good higher education, and although i never made it to uni, we both have very good jobs.

our children will go to state schools regardless of where we live or how much we earn

they wont need money wasted on private schooling as they will have parents who will make an effort in helping them get the best education.

plus, they will be genetic geniuses, made in our mould...

I suspect the difference is I can afford the fees. They were a struggle when daughter 1 25 years ago was 4 and got into Habs and I was in my 20s with 2 other younger children and paying for a nanny and a mortgage but it's got easier over time as I picked a career which pays reasonably well which many women don't - that's their fault - they owe it to their chidlren to pick careers which mean they can pay fees for decent schools and not mess around in low paid arts things which they might well love but doesn't help them put a roof over the head, food on the table and buy a good education.

Yes, there are parents who woudl never consider state schools which probably just about includes me. Then those in the middle who would love to get the children into the state grammar or good comps because the fees are a struggle (or because they'd like to spend £10k a year instead on their hair and shoes) and then there are parents who no way ever could afford any fees so it's not a consideration at all.

But I remain convinced that Habs etc are better than the good state grammars for a broad range of reasons I cannot be bothered to post here and if you can afford it NLCS will probably be better for a daughter than Henrietta B.

..and none of these schools is properly posh either which is the interseting bit about London. Go to areas like Newcastle where I came from and there is a massive divide between my private school and the state comps (we abolished grammars there in about 1971) but London is more mixed and the selective private schools - those listed above have loads of different kinds of chidlren in of all races, religions, colours and income groups (except the very poor). it's nothing like typical of the rest of the country in terms of private/state school divide.

What is fascinating is that the highest exam results in state and private are all concentrated here. Is it because we are more clever - are people thciker in Exeter, North Wales, Scunthorpe? Is it because even the state school parents are richer? Are there better teachers? Or is it just that the state selective schools (of which there are few - most state schools in London are not selective, even Watford grammar is not I think a selective school) and private selective ones choose from such a wide pool?

interesting Xenia

where are you finding this

'the highest exam results in state and private are all concentrated here. '

information - i too am intrigued?

I imagine that it/s because generally there is more affluence in the SE.

We can afford private by the way but don't believe it gives value for money,... and of course we are lucky enough to have very good state provision in our area.

Yay! I've missed your sweeping statements about womankind and thick children Xenia! Welcome back!

colyton is very near exeter

Erm, Xenia, given you have no idea who I am you have absolutely no idea of whether I or any of my friends can easily afford the fees or not. I just don't see any need to pay £12k per child for school fees when I can get a similar education in a state school. If the state schools on offer were poor or didn't suit my child then yes I would sell my soul to put my child in a private school.

What I do agree with you is that the schools mentioned are not posh, they're a very good mix of children from all backgrounds, races and religions and are certainly not snobby.