to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

should that be state-educated?

Possibly Maggie, my mouth hurts and I have an hour now with no more pain relief.

Both sides are getting attacked.
Is the crux of it

actually I think feudal systems are under rated.

Sorry you are feeling crap lizzy.

But at least you have an excuse to post gibberish whereas I manage with no obvious reason.

I'm going for the toothless northern peasant look
Sorry, I knew what I wanted to say, it just wasn't translating very well.......

As a person who has been educated both privately and in the state system, and a parent whose child has been educated in both systems, I cannot and will not subscribe to the antiquated notion that the only route to real success is through private education.

As for building character, I have a damn sight more time for the child who succeeds academically in the state system and with none of privileges of money or class than I do for the pampered offspring of the "elite'.

And in my glamorous career (achieved despite going to one of Xenia's despised polys) the eye-rolling horror of yet another nepotistic work experience child destroying the photocopier and taking two hour lunches will never leave me.

Anyone who has spent money on luxury items like school fees is going to claim it was money well spent. You hardly ever catch people saying "Actually, I wasted thousands."

UQD

I spent £1000's on a Nissan Xtrail that was a pile of old shit
I spent £1000's on a holiday to St Lucia that was a pile of old shit
I spent £100,000s on a house that turned out to be a pile of old shit.
I spent £1000s on 4 years of private education that was a pile of old shit ( but we then moved him)

I am clearly dim but i do feel strangely liberated.

Its so lovely being on thread where none of my points merit attention, perhaps that's because I am not educated properly?

water off a ducks back indeed. More like I'm all right Jack and the rest of you plebs can stew in your call centres.

There are many industries within the uk which could not possibly function solely on the graduate output of a couple of universities.

But given that Xenia does not rate any job unless it pays six figures, perhaps its understandable that she does not rate the vast majority of those educated to degree standard in the UK.

The is a huge swathe of industry which hovers quite comfortably between call centres and Goldman Sachs. And let's face it, the banking industry is not exactly a beacon of intelligent and intellectual philosophies or work practices...we now see it for what it is. Over educated, greedy fools who have stripped the system for their own benefit, and nearly brought down the global economy.

Bet they all went to Oxford or Cambridge or Yale, or Ecole Normale...

Masters of the Universe. That's what your system gets us Xenia. Arrogant, out of touch narcissists who feel entitled to the best, whatever the cost.

Lizzy, proving that on the internete you'll always find somebody in the same boat, I had a local anaesthetic on my lip today to remove hypertrophy tissue and I had 4 stitches. It hurst now. throb, throb. The local hurt like o em gee. So here's a bit of sympathy [Here}

UQD, my Dad says that to me. But it's ok, he admits his Dad did the same. Family tradition to waste money on children who are resistant to education.

Wow, reading back my posts I need a sense-checker!! That is the anaesthetic not the education.

Ouch, Maggie. I had a tooth extraction, apparently my root canals were too small for a root filling. I feel your pain, hope you feel better soon. Why does anything to do with your mouth hurt so much more? And why are you so much more lucid than I am?

Xenia, presmably it's all that fagging and taking it up the arse that won us the Empire then?

DS1 is at a (free) maintained school that comes higher in the league tables than the schools your kids go to. I know because it comes top. So money isn't always the answer IMO.

UQD - maybe they genuinely feel it is money well spent.
I know I do.
And what else would I spend it on? What could be of more value to me than my kids?

I have similar sentiments to Litchick, as I was in the lucky position that I was able to just afford some independent schooling for my DSs but not at St Cake's type schools. I really can't think of anything better that I could have spent the money on (apart from a decent pension).

no no no, Boff, its all the skiing holidays and summers in Mustique...really teaches you grit...crawling home from apres ski and parties at 4 in the morning and still being able to get on the slopes at eight, now, that's character.

Gosh, Xenia it's good to have you back and see you've tempered some of your opinions during your break

I went to one of the best private schools in the country in the sixth form - the sort children are tutored from birth for. It was a brilliant school for someone like me who is academic, driven, tough and from a very secure family background.

I and many of my peers did well. Some are household names now. However, some had a miserable time - often the ones who had been tutored from birth - their parents were fixated on the name of the school rather than whether it was the right place for their child. A lot of them ended up in rehab or having breakdowns. One recently died aged 39, surrounded by drug paraphernalia in the million pound house his father bought for him. Many of the children never saw their parents because they were doing what Xenia considers every parents' duty working every hour of the day to pay the exorbitant fees. Or they very strained relationships with them because they weren't top of the class. I think they would rather have had some family life than attended such a school.

Although I've had a reasonably glittering career, I've come across plenty of contemporaries at Oxbridge and in my career who've done as well/better than me who went to bog-standard comps. If you are clever, driven and from a nurturing background you do not need a private school education to succeed.

Finally, in reply to the OP and to rebuff Xenia's suspicion that most privately educated people do climb back on the ladder, dh went to a posh prep school and as a result knows many people who went to nice-but-dim public schools. One has a terrible heroin addiction, most of the others are riddled with anxieties and inadequacies. Their parents paid for the perceived social cachet of these schools when their children would have certainly ended up happier and, I suspect, done just as well or better from a career pov if they'd gone to the local comp, where they wouldn't have wasted their lives worrying about who was going on whose shooting weekend in the Highland or who was going skiing with Prince William. Some state schools are dire, some private schools are dire. You always have to look beyond the label/the history/the prestige or lack of and decide if a particular school will suit a particular child.

MadameDefarge I'm with you!!! Especially as far as the banking system is concerned.

Some of the nonsense being spouted on this thread is unbelievable. Yes some state schools are crap, some are excellent.

You are not going to be an abject failure if you attend a state school. If you want to bring Oxbridge into it, as that seems to be the only thing that counts, 30 odd got places at Oxbridge from my DCs state grammar school. Every single one in the Sixth Form got a place at a Russell Group university (yes even Bristol and Nottingham....). If you go to an academically selective school, state or private, that's what happens.

Students from the local comprehensive schools also get places at 'top' universities including Oxbridge as well.Obviously it is not going to be so many because it has a mixed ability intake.

It is a complete nonsense to suggest most state school educated students can't write a CV and have lots of GCSEs in ridiculous worthless subjects. Some do, but not all.

The problem is that students are being told that all degrees from all universities are equal when they patently are not. However, that is the fault of the government not the students themselves. The real problem is dumbing down of the exams themselves but that is another argument discussion.

Well, lots of people feel their children are "of value" but don't necessarily feel the need to put a ££££ tag on it.

I honestly do think the thousands I've spent on education is money well spent. I'm not sure I'd think that was an odd thing for people to say, even if I couldn't afford it.

And, another thing, the 'dumbing down' of exams doesn't only 'benefit' children from state schools, it also mightily benefits those very average children in private schools, hence rather a lot of them at 'top' universities.

I know a good number of people who are doing very well in highly paid jobs in the UK:

• they don't come from private schools
• They are not even English , so with no Waterloo heritage

I also know lots of people who are doing very well, even if they are on not impressive salaries.

Xenia- some of your comments are really making me laugh!
The generalisation about state school parents having dreadful grammar was fairly ridiculous but the comment about private schools bestowing 'moral fibre' on their pupils is even worse!

'The qualities of character - there's another fascinating issue. The private schools can give you moral fibre, ability to withstand difficult conditions, good values. I'm not sure state schools with no one wins anything because you're all so wonderful at everything and lets have no red ink because we don't want Jonny to know he's much thicker than James is much good. You get much better character from private schools.... the Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton is not an old English saying for nothing..... I think you are given more qualities to lead in a private school rather than churning out cattle fodder for call centres from some state schools.'

What exactly is 'moral fibre' and how does private school give you 'a better character? Why do you presume, (when you have admitted not knowing anyone who attends/ attended a state school) that at state schools no one wins anything and everybody wins a prize, etc? I have certainly seen this occur in private schools, but wouldn't want to make a generalisation. For an intelligent person, your arguments pro- private education are really making v little sense!

I am not saying that certain private school don't have plenty of merits but I wouldn't list 'moral fibre' as one of them!

MadameD- I'm totally with you about the banking sector. They certainly seemed to have missed out on morals, I'm not sure about fibre!

How can you possibly get to age forty-something and not know anyone from a state school background?

thank you louby and selective, nice to know my pearls of wisdom are not completely being trampled by the swine!