to think many parents who send their children to the lower quality independent schools are so pretentious it is cringeworthy?

[Barrelofloves]

Is it due to insecurity? Because I have found the seriously loaded/titled folk are not like that at all.

Various points
"- Terribly written CVs are not unusual I agree, and I have been amazed at some of the poor quality people submit, but I've not noticed any connection to the particular university they attended. I think that is just snobbism to be honest."

That is so so differetn from my experience and I get several CVs a week. There is a direct correlation to poor comp, bad GCSEs, terrible middlesex poly type institution and CV quality, compared with I went to a good school, got AAA in my A level sand 2/1 from Bristol CV. I think I have never seen a well written CV from someone in the first category and virtually always do from the second. The second know where to put their apostrophes and things like that.

I was also asked:
"What in your opinion is the biggest draw back of a good state school education?"

Most people go to state schools and lots of people who do do absolutely fine. It's not a question of draw backs particularly and it depends where in the country you live. May be in state schools (and my children's father has taught in both sectors so it's not as if I'm completely ignorant of the state sector) your peers can be less ambitious and most of us have fairly mediocre children rather than thsoe who are happy to be the nerd, studious one who stands out from all the others and can cope with being teased. Most children are just in the middle somewhere. So if 100% of your class go to good universities and get over 90% A or A* in GCSE like at say North London C where my daughter went, then you're likely to follow that herd and do what your peers do. If most are going to leave school at 16 and go on the dole then you probably follow the majority.

Secondly perhaps accent, connections, class isn't helped even in our better state grammar schools, not that I think ever a connection from my school has led to any work. Perhaps your friends are more likely to take you on skiing holidays if you're in the private sector. But my children didn't go to school with particularly rich peers so I didn't really notice that effect particularly.

"terrible middlesex poly type institution"...

Would you look properly at someone from a redbrick, then? Or if it is an institution you disapprove of, would you bin it automatically?

I'm not asking to be confrontational, I'm just curious

Xenia "Perhaps your friends are more likely to take you on skiing holidays if you're in the private sector"

Well by keeping our children in the state sector we can take them skiing ourselves every year!

ROFL @ whathestory!

Of course, that's how it is. State school sign will say "Parents Parking" and private school "Parents' Parking". Private schools would be up in arms if it didn't and state parents wouldn't even know or most of them, that it were wrong. (Someone will now tell me why it's not a possessive plural I suppose.....) And of course I generalise as there are plenty of better state schools who do care about grammar. I have a daughter in the other room doing job applications every week and a son who graduates next year. Lovely though it would be if employers could consider everyone, they do not have time so they need some filter.

A good friend whose daughters go to a state school recently had his go off and she went to an ex poly and wants to go into one of the professions. I don't udnerstand why her school let her go there. I don't understand why her father who is quite clever and can surely spend 15 minutes on line and find out where employers who will recruit her recruit from didn't guide her to go to somewhere decent. AAB from her school was very good. She coudl have got in to much ebtter place but she's following her friensd to the ex poly. If she'd gone to a school where none of her friends would be going to the ex poly she would be going somewhere where potential employers would rate her. She's made her life hard. Her school has. Her father has.

On the other hand we could say if I as a 14 yaer old could be writing to universities asking which did entrance scholarships and doing a lot of research off my own bat in the 70s then nothing tos top clever children from poor backgrounds with bad school advice doing the same and those who are good will swim rather than sink.

A lot of the application web sites my daughter is on will not take you if your grades are beyond a certain level. It's not just just a question of HR being difficult. It's the electronic system which is the first hurdle.

Someone asked about my rejecting people. I reject everyone as I employ no one. I like to keep life simple. I eat what I kill. I manage no one.

Having transferred my ds to a private school recently, I must tell you how appalled I was at the dreadful punctuation most of the brochures contained. Needless to say I did not pursue those schools.

And Xenia, I went to a Poly way back when because the course they was exactly what I wanted. Not because I was so rubbish no decent university would take me.

And as for recruitment, I have always found that I would rather employ keen, aware and motivated young people wherever they studied. And actually developed an antipathy to oxbridge graduates who all thought they were way too smart to be doing the grunt work all first time employees must do.

Qualities of character are not dependent upon "good' schools or "good" universities. And it is those very qualities that I look for in employees, not some ridiculous sense of entitlement that has to be knocked out of them.

Snobbery. Pure and simple. Don't try and dress it up as discernment.

Think it's a mistake to assume that all private schools automatically provide a better education.

A bit like the idea that if one pays for it, it must be better quality. For instance, wanting to 'go private' rather then seeing a consultant on the NHS.

Some private schools are better, some aren't.

Why is it that this issue is the one where it is OK to trash a whole group of people just because one or two say obnoxious things.

I don't know anyone at my kids schools who think they are better than everyone else ( well one woman but she is a twat).

The majority of people putting their children through private schools are just doing their best for their child. Most are very grateful thatthey have that option, one whichthey no is not available to many other. They also know that many would not want that choice , and that in many situations a private school would not be the best choice.

I have three children - two in private schools one in a state school. I went to a state school.

I have met nice people and wankers in ALL of them. I have met pretentious people absolutely everywhere. There are as many four by four driving, designer clothes wearing, braying types at my local state schools as at the private ones.

I would guess that private school bashing is mainly envy.

Or at least those who comment on the "types" who send their kids there in a disparaging fashion.

Political reasons different of course.

It's water off a duck's back to me. The private schools (the good ones in the top 20) are better for all kinds of reasons and I'm quite happy with the sums I've paid over the years.

The qualities of character - there's another fascinating issue. Thne private schools can give you moral fibre, ability to withstand difficult conditions, good values. I'm not sure state schools with no one wins anything because you're all so wonderful at everything and lets have no red ink because we don't want Jonny to know he's much thicker than James is much good. You get much better character from private schools.... the Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton is not an old English saying for nothing..... I think you are given more qualities to lead in a private school rather than churning out cattle fodder for call centres from some state schools. [ Quite enjoying this thread now]

I sort of know what OP means. My parents sent me to a craptastic school with a lovely blazer though. And I speak verrrry nicely.. but the teaching their was pathetic.

Borstal is what my children need. Pity they've shut them down. I can't afford choice. My children will have to go wherever I can get them places, so I'll be interested to see if that works out any better.

Yep Pag, it is the NOn-fee paying parents who are generalising.

Not the cattle-fodder for call centre's parents who are too downtrodden, thick and poor to notice that the No parking sign is spelt incorrectly. They are probably in the wrong area of the country as well so they know that ultimately, they and their family simply do not count in the grand scheme of things.

Lovely to see the Feudal system is alive and well.

I don't agree with the character-building bullshit Xenia.

How does mixing with a bunch of people with higher goals strengthen your character, or give you moral fibre?? It motivates you probably. It 'normalises' high achievement and raises the bar which is a good thing.

But character-building?!!?!?!? Bullying is bullying whether it#s at a comp or not.

Pagwatch - which set of parents are you accusing of bashing the other?

Most of Xenia's comments are incredibly rude and inaccurate towards people who educate their children in state schools. Eg. Suggesting that parents at state schools do not have knowledge of English grammar. She seems to forget that some of the parents at state schools went to selective private schools! My school was so old fashioned I even sat a "Use of English" exam in the sixth form!

I have sent my DCs to private and state schools so far so I know that there is no such thing as a "state school" parent or a "private school parent"!!!

happy
I was trying to make the point that everyone bashes everyone. Obviously badly.

And then I was just responding to the fact that just because a few people come on these threads sounding smug does not mean that every parent of a child in private school is smug and superior - or pretentious.
There are people everywhere who are pretentious. It is not, as the OP was suggestion the province of poor quality independent schools - whatever that means

I am interested in what you say about moral fibre Xenia as I have been thinking about this just recently. My Mother had it and I hope I do too - she left school at 14 to look after her brothers. I am not sure that private schools can impart moral fibre but they may keep those with less of it on the straight and narrow.

I agree with you re: competitive sports, which is why my DC will be joining the local town hockey and netball clubs (as well as the theatre drama club, swimming lessons and orchestra). All this in an attempt to enrich their experiences in line with their privately educated peers.

My dilemma having made the move to the state sector is whether or not to aim for the grammar schools in the next county ( at 11) or stay comprehensive in our county (they start upper school at 13).

Another dilemma that I am trying to get my head around is this: When we were in the private sector I was very happy to be firmly footed in the 'have not' camp (in terms of wealth) but now that we are entering the state sector I am beginning to feel like a 'have' IYKWIM. I am even beginning to feel middle class . I know it sounds ridiculous but I prefer to think of myself as working class and it was easier to do that in the private sector. Does anybody know what I mean? Xenia?

LMFAO at the title of this thread.

now I've seen it all.

Bloody Nora.

I called some of the pro-private comments on here "obnoxious" and that makes me part of a feudal system?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVGSKVkkyhc&feature=fvst

tee hee at this

you have to laugh Pagwatch

My son received an offer (yes an offer Xenia - state educated through and through ) on saturday and they only put one 'N' in annual and and

even my state educated daughter was horrified!!

sorry meant to say from Durham!

No Pag!

I was saying that the non-fee paying parents are getting as much of a slating as the fee-paying ones.

Only one (possibly two) posters proposing a return to the Feudal system from what I can see

Sorry, have had anaesthetic today, have realised my post didn't make much sense.