in not fully understanding 'natural' birth

[edd021208]

A lot of mums I know talk about how they had 'all natural' births but then talk about how fantastic they found using gas and air .....I've no big issue one way or another (had epidurals) but wonder if using gas and air constitutes an 'all natural' birth?

I think anyone but a purist would consider g&a only a natural birth, as it doesn't affect the baby (as other drugs may) or limit you physically

Some people use the term 'natural birth' when they mean a 'normal birth' (as defined by doctors), as most people are not purists.

In my view it does - if you can get through it with gas and air only you have done well.

gas and air is fantastic as well...I wish I had some now

'you have done well'??? sorry for doing badly!

I think Ali means you've been lucky edd, not a value judgement

Oh now come on, edd021208 , I thought you had "...no big issue one way or another".

It's too late to pick a fight.

You had your babies. You had pain relief. Doesn't make you less of a hero than tose who only had G&A. No-one implied otherwise.

Ooooh, I'm one of those. I dunno, really - to me, it's natural if it comes out of the fanjo, so I probably mean "vaginal", don't I? But actually water gave me as much pain relief as the gas and air, and in the early stages TENS worked miracles, so at what point is a labour truly "natural"? I don't really see it as less natural to need something to numb the experience of pooing a watermelon, so from my perspective you had a natural delivery, too. I do think I got off exceedingly lightly to find g&a and a waterpool provided a near-total pain block. (I have nothing against epidurals - would never opt for a home birth as the unavailability of them terrifies me. I just didn't happen to need one with DS1. If I do next time, I'll have one like a shot.)

My body is utterly disastrous at pregnancy - if I wasn't throwing up, I was crippled by severe SPD - and I saw the ease of birth as a sort of cosmic quid pro quo. I had been expecting my horrendous run to continue; you know, in hard, agonising labour for days, followed by a ascade of intervention and then finally a crash section. I was just relieved that it was pretty much okay with g&a and water, and my duck broken. Any more "natural" than that - no thanks!

Oh yes, well done!!

there are some people on here just hoping to be offended if you ask me

'natural' birth is an odd term. I would interpret that as meaning no drugs, conventional or alternative, including gas and air and physiological third stage. I tend to think of my first delivery as as 'normal'. For me that means not induced, not surgical or instrumental. I did have gas and air and eventually had an active third stage.

Would tens machines be 'allowed' for 'natural' births?

Odd how no-one talks about having a tooth removed naturally, and how well they did...

Surely anything above squatting in a cave is ever so slightly unnatural?

Sorry not picking a fight, as I said I wanted to know how it is usually defined.
I'd such a violently strong reaction to gas and air that an epidural seemed mild in comparison and have heard such funny stories of people getting so completely out of it on gas and air.....that's all, whatever it takes

I had an elective cs... do I win £5?

Actually edd021208, I think that you are a big fat failure as a mother and as a woman because you had an epidural. I wouldn't be surprised if both your children end up as crackheads with no GCSEs as a direct reult of it.

Ok? Happy now? Have you got the proof that all natural birthers despise you in a completely unreasonable and uncalled for way?

Really, there is no need for this old chestnut to be wheeled out again.

Kitty, I was induced, and on all my records they put down 'normal birth.'

I have competitively had wisdom teeth removed in a natural way, and was smug towards someone who had theirs out under a general anaesthetic. I know that is quite indefensible.

But even I draw the line at childbirth smuggery, as it is such an utter horror.

I meant that childbirth was an utter horror; childbirth smuggery is just mildly irritating.

I had a natural childbirth - baby came out the way it got in epidural, oxytocin etc notwithstanding.

It's just one day out of your life, what does it matter.

MillyR- I'm in awe. Without any anaesthetic? Really??

tethersend My MIL and DH go in for competitive dental fortitude in a big way, so do have fillings (not sure about extractions) without pain relief and then boast about it.

FWIW (and I really don't give a sh!t one way or another - have had one elective cs and one fanjoid birth without pain relief and they were both fab) I would use 'natural' to mean 'went into labour naturally and gave birth without interventions' - so no induction, no cs, etc. So I do tend to distinguish between my elective cs birth and my 'natural' birth. But I don't claim that one was better than the other.

I don't think it IS smuggery, though. In my case I felt sheer, blind, overwhelming fucking relief, because I know exactly how much it hurts for some women, and I was terrified. I'm a wimp. I need ibuprofen AND paracetomol to get my legs waxed. I'd already had months of my pelvic joint bones grinding against one another, even when I slept, without being able to take effective analgesia. I was lucky in that it just didn't hurt that much. Am I supposed to feel my poor eyesight is indicative of failure? Because easy birthing is as much luck as that, IME, and I read "they've done well" as meaning "they got off lightly". You could say "if you managed to escape your mother-in-law right after Christmas lunch, you've done well. I had to have the sodding woman till Boxing Day."

notanumber wow i never thought anything even close to that - I posted as I wondered if there is some working definition of natural as it is a term used a lot by people I know, and I found it odd someone used the term 'doing well.' I was totally happy with the choices I made, no big deal. I'm sorry to come across such aggression and will leave it now....

MillyR - are you my MIL?