to travel first class on the train with an 18mo?

[Baconsarnie]

Am visiting parents in a few weeks with 18mo DS. The train journey is about two hours long, and obv it can be a bit of a trial with DS. He loves trains, but doesn't keep still, will want to walk up and down, press the button to open the door at the end of the carriage etc. He's not too noisy tho, or at least I'll do my best to keep him quiet. So, would I be unreasonable to book a first class ticket? Two singles are quite cheap on Virgin as we'll be travelling off-peak. The upside will be more space, fewer people to annoy/charm, a higher chance of getting two seats to ourselves, and just general all round comfort. But is that unfair to the other people who might be travelling for business or who might have paid more for a bit of peace and quiet?

children don't necessary equal noise, if we as parents can afford to travel 1st class, then that is how we will travel

most of the business people that I saw recently had headphones plugged into their computers or mp3 players during our train journey, so I'm sure they wouldn't have been disturbed too much.

at least my children didn't drink alcohol for the duration of the journey and proceed to talk in louder and louder voices!

Of course YANBU to use your own money to buy whatever ticket you please, but I retain the right to look daggers at any parent who lets their kids shout/ yell/ run/ kick seats etc on the train.

And I dare say the dagger factor would be worse in first class simply because there isn't the usual hum of activity in there that would cover up your own kids mayhem.

The main reason people are willing to fork out for first class is because it's a bit more peaceful in there. It's not enforceable by law or anything, but when people have paid cash to enjoy peace then get a child 'charming' them etc then they might be a bit eye rolley about it, I would be anyway.

"It bothers me more people having loud, detailed conversations on trains than having a child crying, chatting, laughing, playing or whatever." This is my perspective too, ErikaMay. I think most parents do their best to keep children from running amok, tbh. And you hardly ever hear foul language from small children, or loud, off-colour jokes or personal phone conversations involving way tmi.

Two wrongs don't make a right though.

Some adults are incredibly loud, causing annoyance to others on trains.

Some kids are also incredibly loud, causing equal annoyance.

But of a duff argument to say that noise from kids is OK because adults do it too - I detest noise from adults in trains which is why I always choose the quiet coach if I can't afford first class.

YANBU -but I wouldn't do it. 18month olds are noisy and they want to move. The other occupants of 1st class will have paid the extra to do work for business and they won't be happy!In fact they will be very unhappy-I wouldn't be brave enough to brazen it out!

Of course YANBU. I regularly use the Virgin 1st class off peak singles for work as they're a lot cheaper than standard returns and I get a 'nicer' journey - but if I want silence I can move to the 'quiet' carriage. I was hugely disturbed by a very drunk group of middle aged men....a toddler would have been hugely preferable!

And I'm planning to do the same: take my dcs to Manchester on a day off to visit my grandparents and will definitely be doing it 1st class: my son will love the drinks and food

"YANBU -but I wouldn't do it. 18month olds are noisy and they want to move. The other occupants of 1st class will have paid the extra to do work for business and they won't be happy!In fact they will be very unhappy-I wouldn't be brave enough to brazen it out!"

Why does work and its demands trump a mother's desire to travel in comfort with her children? Why should she feel like a second class citizen if she brings her children into 1st Class? Everyone in 1st Class has paid legal tender for their tickets. Everyone has done it for their own reasons. Why are some reasons considered more valid or more important than others?

I didn't say that she hasn't the right!! Of course she has equal rights.
I said that I wouldn't be brave enough-2 entirely different things!

DH and I have travelled several times with DS First class,last summer when he was between 7 -10mo.
It was fab! We also had DSS (7 at the time) on a couple of the journeys (we had a load of free 1st class tickets from GNER as DH used to travel lots on the train).
DS loved it, and we often found we could put him on the seat next to us.
If he got fractious, DH would take him down to the vestibule and let him look out of the window. Change of scene would calm him.

She has the right to be there, and I have the right to give dirty looks to anybody, child or adult, who ruins my journey.

Be they a drunken businessman or an indulgent mum.

Do it. Do it. Do it.

I've done it, well did it lots with my DS's, First Class Crewe to London, especially non-peak, midweek the trains are practically empty.

The last time we went the lady with the tea trolly sang Timmy Time to my DS as she had a son the same age!

I think people might feel a little annoyed if he is running up and down the aisles opening and closing the doors if they have paid extra for first class to escape the hurly burly ,when your DS hasn't paid at all.
Not saying I agree with this BTW just think people don't like other peoples small children on long journeys in confined spaces

Having had a hellish 2 hour train journey with my then 16 month old DS, i wouldn't hesitate to do whatever you need to make the journey more comfortable [though obviously with consideration for your fellow passengers]. I had my DH with me [thank god], but even with two of us looking after DS, it was gruelling, and DS is generally a pretty well behaved toddler. We actually vowed never to travel by train with him again!

Anyway, what's the alternative? People with kids are only allowed to travel by car? Not a very green outlook on the future of transport in this country is it. Also, isn't your right to travel with your child as valid as anyone else's right to travel for whatever reason?

Good luck

YANBU - I always book Virgin 1st class in advance when travelling to Liverpool with DD (now 4, but we have been going up and down since she was 6 months old).

Free food & drink, fab lounge at Euston to wait in, plug for DVD player, carriage usually deserted on the 10am train (and never ever had any evils from anyone, comics, stories, colouring, spot the sheep/cow/horse and DVDs plus the regular trolley service has always been enough to keep her quiet and occupied), what's not to like?

Standard class with a child is the 7th circle of Hell IMHO, I'd rather drive and take 5 hours (with all the inevitable stop offs!) than do that.

People who don't control/occupy their own children are everywhere, not just in first class - certainly I've never come across any others when we've been travelling...

Have a great trip, OP, hope you get your discounted tickets

YANBU

Those people in first class and standard class are all entitled to quiet and calm. I assume the OP wouldn't do anythign different with her child regardless of either class she travelled in.

First class travel does not mean child free travel.

If a person wants a quiet carriage they should book into the quiet coach - they have these in both first class and standard class.

Don't Virgin do Family Carriages as well as Quiet Carriages? If you book in advance you can choose your seats anyway, so you will get to sit together, you can choose to have a table and if in the Family Carriage you can relax knowing that everyone in their has chosen that carriage knowing it is for children. But obviously, you have a right to 1st Class just as much as everyone else, just be sure that you are not booked into the 1st Class Quiet Carriage (there is usually one in 1st and one in standard), as this will annoy people.

Oh and have tken DD first class by train on occassions and it has always been much better, and never had any problems. Have never felt like I or we shouldn't be there.

TBH the very loud talking on mobile phones annoys me far more.

YANBU.

I don't see why you shouldn't travel 1st class - it's more spacious and more comfortable and you're right to think the extra staffing and what have you you get can make all the difference to how you feel.

FWIW, I had a lovely experience with a couple of kids in 1st class when I was travelling to London last year. They were two and five-ish, at a guess. Yes, they talked, yes, they moved about, and yes, at one point, the five year old came over to see what I was doing on my laptop, but they were polite, restrained and their mother was in control the whole time. It actually made for a nice journey having their little intermittent adventures to watch.

And I normally really dislike other people's kids!

Do it - you'll both enjoy it more. You can even make it into part of the adventure for your child, if you think they're old enough to understand it - that they're travelling in the special coach so they need to be on best behaviour like their favourite prince/princess/storybook character etc.

Why on earth not, your money is as good as anyone elses and mostly first class is empty.

I travelled with 19month old on first class, t'was lovely, she was relatively well behaved. On return journey we met with another family with a little one similar age, so we chatted to them, no-one seemed bothered at all, not that there were many people there at all.

(3 hour journey from SW to reading)

Picesmoon - I have travelled first class with the dses more times than I can count - dh got his travel benefits before ds1 was born, so they've all travelled first class from the word go. I've never felt that I was being brave or having to brazen anything out, and I've never felt that people were disapproving of me and my children being in first class.

I travelled 7.5 hours from London to Aberdeen with ds1, aged just under 2, and ds2, aged only 5 weeks, and the journey was fine - and I don't think we were objectionable company for the other passengers in first class.

MorrisZapp - I didn't think that people were saying that it was OK for children to be noisy because some adults are. My impression was that people were saying that noisiness and disruptiveness on trains are not the sole province of children. The corollary being, as I said earlier on, I think - that everyone should behave with a reasonable amount of consideration for other passengers - adults should keep the volume down when they're on the phone, and shouldn't become drunken, sweary louts, and children should stay in or around their own seats (unless they need to go to the loo/buffet etc), and shouldn't seek to entertain the whole carriage with tuneless renditions of "Yes my name is IgglePiggle" or "Postman Pat", full volume for the whole journey. Adults should be responsible for their own behaviour, and parents should make sure their kids are pleasant travelling companions.

I found train travel with small DCs stressful, so it would have been extra stressful to worry about the dirty looks from people who expect child free travel-I accept that I am a complete coward!
If you are happy go for it.
I feel that train fares are too high anyway so there is no way I would pay 1st class-even on my own.

I tell you what, picesmoon - next time, we'll all travel together. My dses can entertain your dcs in one carriage, and we will sit in another carriage enjoying the peace, quite, gin and tonic!

Incidentally, we now let the dses travel on their own. We let ds1 (16) travel alone, even long distance, ds2 can travel alone but not such long distances unless with ds1, and the three of them have travelled from London to Glasgow together, without incident.

aibu to wish we went back to old style of trains that had compartments?

that would be my ideal way to travel by train

south west had a few compartments on their slam door trains until they were made to get rid of them. I loved them!!

It sounds nice Stayingscarygirl! I am pleased to say that mine are all old enough to travel on their own. Mine were never much trouble-only DS3 who wouldn't sit still! However I can just imagine the looks! If you want to do it-give it a try OP.

Is it not acceptable to walk your toddler up and down the aisle then? You learn something new every day.