to be getting a leeeetle bit hacked off with the postal strike...

[AtheneNoctua]

Today I have to take a 2 hour lunch to sort out a Halloween costume because I can't rely on the mail to deliver one if I order it online. That is 2 hours of my work which I will have to make up if I want to be paid for it.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8327158.stm

I selfishly hope they hire the contract workers.

What about the public who relies on this service? Where is our compensation?

I will add I don't know the details of the reasons for the strike (because they aren't reported and not because I haven't looked). So I don't have an opinion on whether the strike is justified.

But I am starting to feel they have made their bloody point and I want my mail service back.

one of the things they are striking about i did undersand - traditionally posties have been paid a full round regardless of how long it takes - so (like binmen in this respect) they have been (e.g.) doing 6 hours work, and getting paid for 8. now, most people would agree that would be a nice perk to have...but perhaps not a reasonable one to expect??

probably some of you would be amazed at at the speed with which workers in various jobs do their work...and the level of physicality involved. Royal mail doesn't have a monopoly on this.

Setting targets generally means that some wil not attain the target(especially if you have an axe to grind, and a camera crew following you).. that doesn't mean it is unreasonable.

If you feel you are being exploited you obviously have every right to withdraw your labour and take it elsewhere. You don't have the right to hold the whole country to ransom.

Does anyone in the private sector get a final salary scheme pension anymore?

No, thought not.

The way the strikers are going, there won't be a Royal Mail to work for soon. Then they'll have to get another job, won't they? Perhaps for one of the privatised franchises that take over. Good luck striking with them.

No, I'm coming across as someone who doesn't, and has never, worked in the public sector. And whose commercial activities are being harmed by the strike.

Georgimama - "If the pay and conditions are so very terrible, leave. Get another job. If you can't get another job, you'll have to put up with it."

Really? I'm unconvinced that the strike action is a sensible or fruitful tactic, but I most certainly do not think that workers should just "put up with" bad conditions. I can't belive that you do.

As people have asked I'll just lay out a couple of the reasons from the other thread for the strike. I don't know all the reasons

1. They want to collapse boxes so that they get rid of 'runs' and increase workloads/deliveries for posties.

They are doing this because of 'less mail volume' - there isn't actually less mail volume because they have just chosen to count it differently. There is a load more junk mail that has to be delivered but is NOT counted.

1. They have timed the runs innacurately - it is not humanely possible to deliver in that time - so it means posties who started at 5am and finished at 12 are now working till 4-5pm. They are not being paid for this.

1. the pension. Underfunded and fucked.

IMO the postal services are amazing in this country - it should not be possible (and is not sustainable) to send a letter the length of the country for 35p.

Double it, triple it - I will pay and be very happy.

And then you can pay your workers a decent salary and time the runs properly.

And stop paying the top management millions of quid to rationalise sack people. It's just plain wrong.

And you are not able to consider other very personal circumstances one bit. That's where the arse comes into it.

Nor do I. So they should either negotiate, or look for another, better job. And if they can't get one, and they can't negotiate better conditions, how exactly is striking, on strike pay, going to help their cause?

It isn't.

BTW the head of the CWU earns over 100,000 per annum. I don't think he's on strike pay right now, is he?

Geogimama, so you don't think they should just "...have to put up with it" then?

You support their right to complain and campaign, but you feel that the strike action is counter-productive and pointless and alienating the end user?

There's nothing wrong with that logic at all.

That isn't how you expressed it orginally though, and I'd suggest that this is why people are taking issue with your posts.

Thank you Laurie, for that information.

But they are negotiating....

Can someone tell me how many hours per week, on average, a postie works? I mean if they are paid for 30, but actually required to work 50 to do their work, I can sympathise. In fact, i would suggest they just go home at 30 hours. Maybe pu tin an extra 1 or 2 for good measure. But, not all the time.

If the RM is asking them to do the impossible then of course that is not fair.

Don't get me started. My DH is a manager in a Royal Mail distribution centre and I hear about the strikes and the union threats all the time. I hear about the way people are treated when they choose to break the strike and work, I hear that not all staff voted at all, so when the minority voted to strike, it was only a small proportion of the workforce. I don;t know many companies where you get a final salary pension(only new members of staff do not get this), full maternity pay, full sick pay for six months, half pay for next six months, more holiday pay than most, decent bonuses each year if RM have made profit). My DH has to cover the strikes so works 12 hour days (longer hours than the postal workers). RM made the mistake of allowing staff to be paid a full day but only work til they finished their jobs and can not afford to do this any longer - fair point. In what other job would we expect to be paid for hours we did not work. I must stop ranting now as do not want to pee off people

Well said laurie , there are legitamate reasons for the strike . yes it is a right royal pain in the arse when they do strike ,but as the upper echelons are renaging on an agreement reached two years ago ,there really is little alternative in their eyes .
Can i just say aswell that the goverment wants to modernise the royal mail in the way that the railways and utilities were 'modernised' and it always makes me chuckle when people throw their hands up in horror when the train companies put up their prices again ,when the utilities run at a massive profit ,yet refuse to reduce the prices to the consumer. Privatised companies do not care about customers they care about profits ,end of story . When royal mail is eventually sold off to the highest bidder ,will you all be on here moaning about the massive price hikes and reduction in service ? hope not

"Put up with it" can be taken as a short hand for "attempt to negotiate, but if your employer is unwilling or unable to accede to your demands, and you are unable or unwilling to get another job, you'll have to put up with it like everyone else".

I've had a salary freeze for the second year running. As I said, I'm just glad to still have a job.

1. "They want to collapse boxes so that they get rid of 'runs' and increase workloads/deliveries for posties.
They are doing this because of 'less mail volume' - there isn't actually less mail volume because they have just chosen to count it differently. There is a load more junk mail that has to be delivered but is NOT counted."

Sorry, I'm not quite following this one. Apologies if I am being very slow here.
What do you mean by "collapsing boxes"?

Is the upshot that there is more mail to deliver? I'd guess that depends on how much they had to start with. It is reasonable to me that if they were finishing a shift early previously when they had less mail, that they should just accept that they have to meet the upsurge in quantity as this is what they are paid for. If there is now far too much mail for a postman or woman to deliver in their shift, then they are quite right to demand that the rounds are split or that they are paid overtime.

2. "They have timed the runs innacurately - it is not humanely possible to deliver in that time - so it means posties who started at 5am and finished at 12 are now working till 4-5pm. They are not being paid for this."

Clearly this is unacceptable. If the postemen and women are working until 4pm then they should be paid until then. What happens if they do not complete their round? Would it be possible for them to work for their contracted hours and then return the undelivered mail to the sorting office?

3. "the pension. Underfunded and fucked."

Final salary schemes are insupportably expensive and almost no-one in the private sector has them. It seems very unreasonable to me for the unions to be demanding that these are retained as opposed to a stakeholder pension (if that is indeed the issue) when it is clearly financially impossible and will only bring them into line with the vast majority of the rest of the country.

bensmum ,can you explain full maternity pay to me please ? im a public sector worker (nurse) and i get 8 weeks full pay ,4 weeks half pay and then 20 weeks on statutory mat pay and then i can have a further 12 weeks off unpaid should i choose ,that might be wrong as it is so complicated to work out ,but basically i only get paid full pay for 2 months . As for final salary pensions ,well thats a thing of the past in the nhs for most workers , they change our contracts as and when they like and it is a lump it or like it attitude .Oh and i pay more in pension contributions than tax at present as i work part time .

notanumber collapsing boxes means getting rid of post boxes, just like they have post offices.So you have to walk twice as far to post your letter

"probably some of you would be amazed at at the speed with which workers in various jobs do their work...and the level of physicality involved. Royal mail doesn't have a monopoly on this."

Indeed they don't. I think it was Stalin who invented that one. Let's go down that route and time the fastest worker and use their time as a target

I am so tired of the same old argument citing people that have poorer working conditions/hours/pay as justification for putting up with appalling conditions, as if we should all just be grateful. Perhaps we could think about raising working conditions in the private sector if they are so terrible?

Bensmum76, most postal workers are not paid an hourly rate but a salary- so nobody is being paid for 'hours they don't work' although some posters feel, bizarrely, that this means they can be required to do anything at all, no matter how unreasonable.

I thought that the Royal Mail took a 17 (? that seems too long? I may be out on that) pension holiday when the financial situation of the country was relatively bouyant. Then moan when the pension is billions of pounds under-funded.
That was short-sighted and foolish and shouldn't have been allowed.

17 year.. sorry

I'm a teacher, so a public sector worker. I am paid a salary. My contracted hours are 1265 annually.

However, my contract also stipulates that as well the 1265 contracted hours I am expected to do whatever else is required (at a time of my choosing) in order to fulfil the requirements of the job.

I actually don't think this is completely unreasonable.

Royal Mail workers don't have the monopoly on having more work than fits into their contracted hours.

I am on a final salary pension scheme, but I accept that this is financially insupportable. I will be absolutely bloody amazed if that is what I get in forty years. There's no point railing against it, the maths just doesn't add up.

Does 'collapsing boxes' really mean getting rid of post boxes so you have to walk further to post a letter?. Really?

Royal Mail workers are not going to receive final salary pensions, they have been stopped for the majority. Only those close to retirement will receive them. I have been with Royal Mail for over ten and will not receive final salary pension.

Is anybody interested in facts?

Do you really think a private company will deliver a first class letter the following day to the other end of the country for the price of a first class stamp?

Everyone who wants to rant on about 'their commercial initiatives being ruined' should think on to ten years down the road if Royal Mail Management (and the government) get their way.

Do you know that Royal Mail are exempt from charging VAT, and that TNT is in the process of trying to change to that so that they can compete on a level playing field with Royal Mail. What this means is an increase in prices for the customer.

Longer deliveries, longer collections, fewer post offices, fewer post boxes all mean greater profits for Royal Mail but a worse service for the customer.

Seriously, start thinking of yourselves and what this will mean for you as a customer.

Fewer boxes means Royal Mail doesn't need as many collection drivers. Less money spent on wages.

The impact on customers is more inconvenience.

I thought the Post Office was the Post Office, and nothing to do with Royal Mail anymore.

People are already making alternative arrangements for their businesses. I work for a law firm and most of our communications with other solicitors, courts, insurance companies and similar bodies go by document exchange. During the last few days we have been sending the bulk of other communication by email. This trend will only increase if the post is not a cheap, fast and user friendly option (which frankly it isn't).

On a personal level I get my statements and bills by email/direct debit and I communicate with my friends by text, phone and email. Apart from Christmas or birthdays envelopes on the door mat are regarded with deep suspicion in this house - it won't be anything we want or need.