To think that Julia Hollander who put her severely brain damaged daughter into care did the right thing

[pigletmania]

I have just picked up this weeks Pick Me Up magazine and have read the brave story of a woman Called Julia Hollander and her husband who put their daughter Imeogen who has severe brain damage into care as they could not cope. The daughter is now thriving and doing so well in the care of Tania a professional carer. They are still a part of their daughters life and are involved in decision making regarding aspects of her life.

When this couple spoke out about their story they recieved a lot of bad press and was unfairly vilified by people on Mumsnet who if they have not been in that situation have no idea what this couple are going through. They put their daughter into Tanias care so that she would have a better life, this in itself is very selfless and putting their daughter first.

[posieparksherbroom]

I wonder at five months what the differences really would be between a child with CP and one without. My ds3 cried, screamed and vomited for most of his first six months....
I think most people would grieve for the life their child couldn't lead but I get a sense that she didn't want to try.

[posieparksherbroom]

I may hide thread, I don't do well in SN discussions.

[Mamazonabroomstick]

no fernie - i think most of us that have very strong opinions have SN children.

[Cerened]

Why does she feel the need to continually peddle the story, over and over and over?

The fact she wrote a whole book about the situation, and still needs to remind everyone of her 'brave' decision, through interview after interview drives me mad.

[2shoescreepingthroughblood]

posieparksherbroom not a lot tbh.
very few people are even told their child has cp at that age,

[silverfrog]

posieparker, iirc that was one of the main points last time this was thrashed out on MN - that she didn't seem to want to try to work it out, and could not see past her daughter's disability.

[LaurieScaryCake]

I have every sympathy with someone who cannot cope and hasto put their child into the care of others.

This couple were rich enough to pay for this care and should have to pay for it - instead of stretching an already overburdened care system.

[cory]

pigletamania,

two things:

the first that as I remember, the people who were most critical were precisely the ones who do have firsthand knowledge

the second: what really upset most people was how Julia Hollander had been willing to go public about how she and her husband had actually contemplated murdering the child- how can that not damage their other children when they read about it???

did you read that bit in her book? or are you just telling the story you read in this magazine without checking your facts?

if my parents had been so stressed that they contemplated doing away with one of my brothers, I would rather not read about it in the national press, thank you very much

the book also made it very clear that Julia was prepared to go to any lengths with her children rather than face the risk of her husband leaving her-again, hardly reassuring for the children to read that

the stress is very understandable: going public with it is not

the impression I got was definitely that Julia Hollander cared more about getting to tell her story than about the impact her story will have on her children- and believe me, they will get to know about it and it will have an impact

[cory]

and yes, her temptation to harm the baby and decision to leave it at the hospital did not come after months or years of struggling

[2shoescreepingthroughblood]

they were very lucky, their daughter has a wonderful mum now who adores her and gives her all the love these awful people couldn't.

but what if she hadn't found such love, what if she had just spent her life in care.....would that still be brave?

[MuGGGhoulWump]

Crikey, you're brave posting this.

I don't know, as I have no experience of SN.

I did something very frowned upon too though (had a late abortion), and I guess I like to think that she did the right thing for her child and herself just as I did.

[cory]

It was the way she told the story. If she had said, 'I had PND or puerperal psychosis and this is what it did to me, I would have been full of sympathy'. But she seemed to take is as a natural thing that if you have a damaged child, you're going to want to get rid of it, not because you are worn out with struggling, but because you're not going to want a child like that. And the way she made it clear that hubby came first.

[lisad123wantsherquoteinDM]

"Having had my previous child only two years before, I could see that this one was not normal"

Back arched, head flung back, Immie screamed and screamed, and I wished she were dead.

I have accepted that Immie is as she is; I take her to music therapy sessions; I visit her when she stays at the local children's hospice. Now that she smiles, I can smile too, but I cannot celebrate her in the way I celebrate my other children. Always beneath the surface of my love is the black hole of that scan.

After five years of this extraordinary extended family, things are getting easier for me. I no longer miss my baby. Perhaps it is because she has reached school-age, the first time we expect independence and apartness.

I am formally stating that I want to stay in touch with Immie. This way, she is still my other daughters' sister; my parents' grandchild; my brother's niece.
(what about being her daughter??)

yeah she sounds lovely

[posieparksherbroom]

The whole thing is pretty questionable. I assumed that the child was in their teens (don't know why) and that she was able to participate in the decision. I have had the pleasure of meeting Riven's little girl and was astounded how much meaning she could convey with just a look, she obviously has her mother's sense of humour! I feel from the mother's words that this child just didn't fit and that the child and condition were one and the same thing. The one thing MN has done is make me see that loving parents can hate and loathe a condition but still see and love the child. Not that I couldn't think that it's just that it was made very clear.

[pigletmania]

totally cory i was typing whilst trying to keep my dd from lobbing misslies at the TV so my wording was not entirely right and did not know the stuff surrounding it. No i have not read her book just the pick me up article and certainly would have not gone public about it myself. It does take a lot to admit that you cannot cope whilst some cope and do very well as seen from MNetters here with children who have disabilities, however some just cannot cope and should be helped to do the best for their child whether it is providing help and respite or long term foster care adoption.

[2shoescreepingthroughblood]

i hate the term "damaged " it is horrid

[MuGGGhoulWump]

When I say I like to think, that's waht I mean, I don't mean she did the right thing, or that she didn't.
I don't know, but my decision has come back to haunt me again this week, with my so called best friend (back then), banging on about the evils of late abortion where she knows I will read it.

No one can ever know what goes on in somebody elses head, how they will cope, and how they feel.
I prefer to think good of people, and accept she did this for her DD.

[posieparksherbroom]

I'd like to "stay in touch" with my dcs too wtf?

[posieparksherbroom]

A late abortion is very different than a 'babe in arms' that you reject upon the grounds that you don't want to try and that you will never love it. Don't beat yourself up MGW.

[Mamazonabroomstick]

i agree piglet.

But JH makes each article into a "woe is me. i wanted a nice child and ended up with dmaged goods. aren't i wonderfull for being so selfless as to allow somoene else look after her so as i don't have to wish her dead"

She makes her case in a way as to say its a perfectly normal response to want your ill child dead. that her reaction is one that most parents have.
She is so very very wrong its untrue. and yet t here are people out there with no experience of SN or families with SN that will believe she is right. that women who do not dump their children into the cazre system are clearly saints as any normal person would just do as JH did and get rid so she can have a nice normal baby

[Tee2072]

Never heard of these people but I have a very good friend who had to make this decision. She didn't make it lightly and now her son is in a great school where he is well taken care of and is learning beyond what she or the regular school system could teach him. And he's not very far from her house so she sees him all the time.

I do not wish that decision on anyone. I hope to never have to make such a decision.

I do know that if I ever did? I wouldn't sell my story to trashy magazines.

[cory]

As summarised by the Daily Telegraph, reviewing her book.

"'I've checked on the internet. There is no difference between cot death and suffocation," composer Jeremy "Jay" Arden announced one evening.

"We can't kill our own child," gasped his partner, Julia Hollander.

"Who else is going to?" he replied.

That night Julia took her severely disabled daughter to a friend's house to protect her from her father's desire to end her suffering, but soon she was back home and it was her turn to entertain murderous thoughts.

"We can do it together, it would be so simple," she whispered to Jay one night when Imogen was sleeping.

This time it was he who pulled them back from the brink. "We can't take that risk. Think of Elinor." The prospect of having their two?year-old child taken from them stopped them in their tracks."

Yes, I suppose these thoughts can pop into your head when you've had a shock. But you don't have to write a bloody book about them. How safe do you think that would make her other daughter feel in case anything happens to her?

[2shoescreepingthroughblood]

ssending your child to a residential school is very different, that is not abadoning your child.
I know a lot of people who have had to go down that route, not because they don't want or love their child, but they can't offer the 24/7 nursing care the child needs.
strangely none have written a book.

[2shoescreepingthroughblood]

what I have never understood, is why they were allowed to keep their other children.