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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not want to be defined by my marital status or surname?

811 replies

tealight · 19/10/2009 23:05

To be not at all surprised that women still strive to achieve equality when some/many/most (???)women in marriage take on men?s surnames and (in marriage or not) agree to their children taking the man?s surname? That is the way it used to be when women and children were literally, in the eyes of the law, men?s property. That is the basis o the tradition for fathers to give their daughters away. And why should my marital status be used to define me every time I fill out my personal details? Miss, Mrs, Ms? Men just have Mr. Yet many of us still subscribe to this. Why why why?????

OP posts:
sprogger · 20/10/2009 13:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jamandjerusalem · 20/10/2009 13:21

I think it's indicative of the way feminism is still a dirty word in this country. (Great article by Caitlin Moran on feminism, incidentally)

I don't buy the 'it's just a tradition' argument. Traditional doesn't mean it's ok. Fox hunting, anyone?

ninagleams · 20/10/2009 13:22

"Therefore I stick by my assertion that you were attempting to describe my reasons inaccurately."

I wasn't attempting to describe your reasons at all. I was addressing the implications of what you wrote.

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 13:24

How ridiculously smug are you, girlafraid and notamumyyet?! I suspect that your friends are still "intelligent", right-on", "fiesty" and "independent" - they just made a different choice to you. Being judgmental about that doesn't make you a ball-breaking feminist, it just makes you judgmental.

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 13:27

Because you know that those women didn't think about it, sprogger? Of course they thought about it - they just came to a different decision to you.

curiositykilled · 20/10/2009 13:28

ninagleams - you were not, you were trying to tell me what I thought and why I was making certain choices without identifying or expressing that your comments were just your own interpretations and opinions or actually knowing about my own choices or reasons. I was pointing out that that kind of behaviour is what you and the OP are complaining about. It doesn't bother me what you think about what I do TBH. Any comments you make about my choices only reflect what you feel about your own.

This is one of those let's judge people for being judgey threads that can just argue it's way round in circles for days.

notamumyetbutoneday · 20/10/2009 13:29

I think I made it quite clear in my previous post that contrary to what you have written, in the case of some of my friends they did not actively make a choice. Their words were "Of course I'm taking my husband surame, why wouldn't I be?"therefore implying that they did not feel there was a choice to be made.

sprogger · 20/10/2009 13:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

notamumyetbutoneday · 20/10/2009 13:32

Totally agree sprogger. Taking one's husbands name is seen as the de facto norm- its not a simple case of "Shall i do X or Y".

stickylittlefingers · 20/10/2009 13:36

I just wish that the conversation would go:

3P: what's your name?
Me: Ms Littlefingers
3P: OK I'm just going to note that's what you want to be called and not ask any further questions, unless something like "any previous names" is necessary in the context.

Interesting that Fraulein has fallen by the wayside in Germany - all grown up women are "Frau", no matter their personal circumstances. I don't know how they made that happen, but I wish a similar demise on Miss.

stillstanding · 20/10/2009 13:39

Great article, jamandjerusalem - I think I am starting to develop a crush on Caitlin.

Sprogger, I haven't met any women who haven't thought about it at all regardless of the ultimate decision although obviously some women come to a decision more quickly than others.

I think that you (and notamumyet) are deluded - and not a little patronising - to think that women don't think about this at all but I guess this could depend on the different circles in which we move.

persephoneplum · 20/10/2009 13:45

I agree! But I also think women should have the choice. It's none of my business if other women want to abide by an outmoded tradition with roots in the trade of women as commodities.

My kids have both of our names - my last name as a middle name, and my husband's last name. My inlaws don't approve that I didn't take on the family name and I couldn't give two figs. Yeah and I use Ms too, totally shocking.

Morloth · 20/10/2009 13:46

sprogger I didn't change, didn't really think about it, just couldn't be arsed changing all my stuff, so didn't bother.

bonitagbchica · 20/10/2009 13:56

To be grammatically correct, you are to use Miss if you are under the age of 25 and unmarried. All married and widdowed/divorced women use Mrs. Ms is used for women over the age of 25 who are unmarried

HTH

NeedaNewName · 20/10/2009 14:04

If you want to be a Miss or Ms then fine but don't have a go at those of us who choose to take on our husbands name for whatever reason. It doesn't make us the 'little lady', we can still be 'feisty, intelligent and right on'. We change our name not personality

Call yourself whatever you want, I don't have a go at you for choosing to keep your maiden name so don't have a go at me.

elvislives · 20/10/2009 14:04

I have been Ms since I was 15. I originally thought you had to change your name, until I looked into it and found it was a custom. DH said he wasn't fussed about his name so he'd take mine- sorted. Until he told his parents and they went spare. Really I should have taken that as a warning of things to come and stopped it there and then but I was young and naive.

DH finally double barreled by deed poll when DD was born. Interestingly I didn't have to have a deed poll because his says "I take for myself, my wife and future issue".

All 7 of us - me, DH and DCs are Myname-Hisname. It is a PITA and I seriously considered giving the lastborn just my name because I am so fed up with the unwieldiness of our 4 syllable surname, and because in day-to-day life both me and DH use just my name. Even at work he is Mr Myname.

Some of the family got the idea immediately (including both sets of parents and my grandparents) and manage to write to us as Mr & Mrs both names, but even after 23 years there are still a large number of people on both sides who write me cards to Mrs Hisname. I manage to remember that people have called themselves Mrs or whatever. It is so rude when people decide for themselves what you should be called.

MrsChemist · 20/10/2009 14:05

I don't like the assumption being thrown around that it's shocking that intelligent women wouldn't think about this. Like it's ok for stupid women to just go ahead with the norm, but we all expect more from intelligent women.
Girlafraid - Taking one's husband's surname is hardly indicative of becoming "the little lady".

ninagleams · 20/10/2009 14:05

curiositykilled Thanks for that but I'm perfectly aware of what I was thinking. You are the person who has quite clearly implied they know the others motivation here.

BlingLoving · 20/10/2009 14:14

Curiosity - I'm guessing "The Crucible" is not your favourite play!?

LouIsAWeetbixKid · 20/10/2009 14:20

I ended up changing my name when I was 13 to my stepfathers name. I got sick and tired of having a differnt name to my mum so I changed it. I previous surname was horrible and my new one no one can spell but it is just a name. I will always be Lou irregardless of my surname. My surname does not define me. And I use Miss purely for the reason that I don't like the sound of Ms and it saves lots of questions. And I know that I am not married and am not ashamed of that (my mother might be though)

madamearcati · 20/10/2009 14:21

Because when I got married to DH and subsequently had children , we wanted to be a family unit.Sharing the same surname is a clear symbol of solidarity, that we are one unit.

pagwatch · 20/10/2009 14:29

ROFL at this whole notion.
I took my Dhs name - mostly because it is beautiful and my name was difficult to pronounce and not very pretty. But then if I had kept my own name thatwas actually my fathers name. I could have had my mothers maiden name but that was her dads name and he was a foul human being. So maybe I should just have abandoned that too. In fact I am not sure where I should have drawn inspiration for a name that was not based on a male line if I went back far enough.

I LOVE the notion that I could be bound to my husband through his dominance of our finances, leisure, habits and culture but keep my dads name and I am right on and feisty.
But I am my Dhs equal in every measure but chose his name and I am suddenly stupid little wifey.

If I meet someone I have no connection between them and their married status or their name. I am interested in the person in front of me and not their title - whatever that may be. All the 'are you married' 'do you have children' is justthe same stuff as 'where are you going on holiday' and 'what music do you like'.
I would never assess someone based on this stuff.

JUdging people by how they choose to call themselves is just a load of pretentious bollocks.Assuming that to be feisty and intelligent you must have x name and that y name makes you suspect is all just so very needy in its own way.

As long as I am finacially, emotionally, socially and every other way equal I don't need to make these gestures.
I like the tradition. So shoot me.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 20/10/2009 14:33

bonitagbchica Tue 20-Oct-09 13:56:47 Add a message | Report post | Contact poster

To be grammatically correct, you are to use Miss if you are under the age of 25 and unmarried. All married and widdowed/divorced women use Mrs. Ms is used for women over the age of 25 who are unmarried

HTH

What the frig are you on about? ms was introduced as an alternative to miss and mrs for women who chose not to use them - not as an alternative to miss for older women. You have totally misunderstood the purpose of ms.

ABetaDad · 20/10/2009 14:34

FGS!

I am honoured that my DW decided to take my name. Yes, she decided of her own free will and believe me she is not and ever has been the 'little woman' as depicted by Girlafraid. She is highly intelligent and makes her own choices - about everything.

I think some women need to get a life, look at what is important and stop judging other women for the free choices they make.

slug · 20/10/2009 14:34

A friend on mine took his wife's name when they got married. For years afterwards he would dine out on the stories of the reaction he got from banks/officialdom.

Interestingly, when they finally divorced (very amicably) after 20 years, he kept her surname because it was the same one as the children had.