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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not want to take part in the religious part of a wedding........

103 replies

SqueezyCheesyPumpkin · 16/10/2009 23:22

OK, go easy on me.

Summary - friend having a catholic wedding. I am to be a witness. She is insisting that I do the whole religious ceremony thing, the bread, wine, crossing myself, praying etc etc. (am sorry, if there is a term for that, I don't know it). The wedding is abroad in a very catholic country.

I am totally not religious, don't believe in God. However, I respect that this is the wedding she wants and support her in that, but why do I have to do the whole religion thing? I'd feel like a complete hypocrite?

How do people get around this kind of thing?

OP posts:
tinkerbellesmuse · 17/10/2009 06:07

Attend the wedding to support your friend but sit out the overtly religious bits.

FWIW I was a witness at a catholic wedding, I am not religious and the wedding was held in a very catholic country.

I believe I simply answered yes to a question along the lines of would I "support my friends along with god in a prosperous marriage" Didn't really feel it was relevant to mention that I didn't (don't) believe in god at that precise moment! I didn't particpate in communion and it wasn't expected of me (by either my friend or the church).

ErnestTheBavarian · 17/10/2009 06:21

Well just to add to what others have said, you are not allowed to recieve holy communion, so I find it totally bizarre that she is suggesting you do. As for insisting you pray? Well praying is essentially a conversation with God. The public prayers, said out loud, you presumably won't know, so can't say. ANd the times of private prayer - how's she to know if you're having a spiritual chit chat with your maker or running through your shopping list?

I am catholic, dh isn't. He (unwillingly) came to our kids' baptisms (and our wedding!) - the only times he's been to a catholic church. I ressured him he didn't need to genuflect, say anything he didn't believe in. No one will notice, no one will be judging him etc etc.

I find it disappointing that not only is your friend not being ressuring, she's insisting you do something that you're not comfortable with and you're not even allowed to do.

Are you sure she's not windimg you up?

Next time youe chance just tell her you're not allowed. And maybe buy her a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church as a wedding gift as she clearly would benefit from it.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 17/10/2009 08:23

No way should you pretend. Taking the communion would be very wrong as catholics don't allow that so it wouldn't just be a bit of pretending, it would be doing something that the priest and worshippers would be very unhappy about if they knew. It would make me extremely uncomfortable to do that.
I went to a catholic school and occasionally had to sit through mass, I used to cross myself when I was very young but realised about age 13 that I was being a hypocrite by pretending and I needed to be true to myself. She needs to understand that.

I suggest you just carry on as you plan to. She won't be able to say anything once the service in underway and I doubt she'll care!

Gracie123 · 17/10/2009 08:53

TBH the preist would have a big problem with you taking part in communion etc... if he knew you didn't believe. If you friend is a catholic she should know this.

I would subtly point it out to her and suggest that you could avoid that part, but if it's too embarrassing for her, you would not be offended at her choosing someone else as a witness.

Make sure you make it clear that you love her and still want to be at the wedding, but these are really the only honest two options.

No matter how catholic a country is, nobody has never met an atheist/agnostic. They're not going to stone you for not taking part. The important thing here is being true to yourself and your beliefs, whilst honouring your relationship with your friend and trying to minimise any offense.

piscesmoon · 17/10/2009 09:04

She is wrong and you are right. I am a Godparent to a Catholic DC, I am not a Catholic, he has other Catholic Godparents, and the priest knew this. I wasn't expected to do anything in the way of Catholic rites.
I expect that the priest would be fine about it but she hasn't explained. Do not compromise your beliefs-she shouldn't ask you to.

ShutUpandDrinkYourGin · 17/10/2009 09:29

half of my family is Catholic and I regularly attend weddings, christenings, thanksgiving services etc though I am Anglican.

you will not look out of place if you don't cross yourself, genuflect etc

obviously you cannot take communion, but you can go and take a blessing if you like, or not

for goodness sake, she should have better things to do during her marriage ceremony than check that you're doing all the 'actions'

Doublebuggy · 17/10/2009 09:38

Just don't do what one of our guests did.

As an objection to religion he stood up when you were supposed to be seated and then sat down when everyone else stood up.

I felt he turned our wedding into a panto and I have never forgiven him.

Especially as when he got married the following year we all acted very civilised to make sure his day went the way he wanted (in a civil service of course).

ShutUpandDrinkYourGin · 17/10/2009 09:40

doublebuggy - why didn't he just not come to the service if he was so against it? that's just so deliberate

Blackduck · 17/10/2009 09:41

DB that is so disrespectful - to you and everyone there... not sure I'd ever talk to someone again if they did something like that to me.....

FakePlasticTrees · 17/10/2009 09:49

Doublebuggy, wow - and you're still talking to this person??? It's one thing not having the same faith, it's another to completely disrespect someone's faith in a public way. That would be a 'never see them again' moment for me...

OP - I'd say you will 'take part' only if you can talk to the Priest beforehand and check he won't be offended. She'll back down, no way any Priest will be all for 'just going through the motions'.

Anyway, you might want to tell the bride if she needs her witness to be able to be fully involved, she's picked the wrong witness, and you'll happily be a 'standard guest' if she wants to pick someone else.

Good luck.

Toffeepopple · 17/10/2009 09:51

My BIL had a catholic wedding and the priest spoke to us family members beforehand and said that for the wedding we could receive communion as long as we received it in our own churches.

So if you were a communicant Christian in another church then it may be possible if that is what they have agreed with the priest. However, it doesn't sound like you are or would want communion even if you were once and it doesn't sound like they have discussed it either!

We have muslim, jewish and atheist/agnostic friends. They have attended church for our children's baptisms and our wedding. They stood up and sat down at the right times, said which words they agreed with "we support you" - yes, "we turn to Christ" - no. I think this is reasonable and polite.

Had they started parading up to take communion I and crossing themselves would have been pretty surprised - though in every case the vicar said they were welcome to have a blessing if they chose - some did, some didn't (he told them to carry a hymn book so it was clear they wanted a blessing only).

Stick to your guns.

Gracie123 · 17/10/2009 09:53

WOW! DB, I'm amazed you didn't ask that guest to leave, let alone attend his civil service. That is the most outrageous behaviour I have ever heard of.

There have been occasions where I have said to someone that I can't attend a wedding (on faith grounds), but I always send a gift (usually big because I feel so bad). I think it's terrible for someone to turn up and deliberately sabotage your day. I'm so sorry that happened.

Cies · 17/10/2009 09:53

YANBU at all. I echo what so many have said already - it would be totally disrespectful to her religion if you were to take part in such a way. I am CofE but live in Spain which is of course mainly Catholic. I've been to weddings and funerals and done the respectful thing of sitting and standing when everyone else does, bowing my head in the prayers but generally minding my own business! Stick to your guns.

The only thing that popped into my head was that maybe she has told the priest that all her witnesses are Catholic, or she is afraid that non-Catholic witnesses will not be allowed. Ask her if this is the case. And if it's going to be a problem, then you could offer to step down.

Original poster
SqueezyCheesyPumpkin · 17/10/2009 10:29

Wow, loads of replies, thanks very much

The wedding is in Italy and as far as I know, we will be the only non-Italians there. She said she is worried that we will stand out as the 'foreign non-catholics'....which doesn't bother me one bit TBH.

DB - that is awful, I certainly wouldn't do anything like that!

OP posts:
radstar · 17/10/2009 10:33

You definitely shouldn't go through the motions just to please her, her parents, mil etc

It would be totally disrepectful to them and all those who believed in the religion. Going through the motions would be mocking them. Just sit quietly while they pray, stand and sit when required but don't take communion.

Would any of them really notice what you were doing? they should be intent on the couple and the priest. If they did and said anything then you can say you aren't catholic, but respect their beliefs and want to be there for your friends special day.

Like other people said, ask yourself what you would do at a ceremony of any other religion.

Stick to your guns, I was brought up christian by my parents but decided I couldnt follow a religion, if I go to a ceremony like a funeral or wedding I just act as I would feel is respectful to that person's faith but without compromising my own beliefs. xx

Longtalljosie · 17/10/2009 10:38

Just do it... it will make your friend happy. It's her wedding day, she deserves to be happy. It's not about you, and insisting on sitting out part of the ceremony will ensure that, at least in part, it is

ImSoNotTelling · 17/10/2009 10:46

It's a "cultural" catholicism thing rather than a "by choice" type thing - obviously many people are both but as she's of Italian descent she will have to just get on with it, which is fair enough. She is catholic, even if she has had to panic and get confirmed etc at the last minute.

You however are not.

I think that the other people at the wedding will perfectly well understand that you are not catholic, there may be a when you don't take communion etc if you are stood at the front but I think that's the way it has to be. Either she accepts it and has it as a talking point, or she chooses anotehr witness I'm afraid.

She will probably need to mention it to the priest first - are there words etc which you have to say - are they legal or religious - or don't you really know what's going to happen?

ImSoNotTelling · 17/10/2009 10:48

Many people "go through the montions" getting married in CofC over here when they are not believers in the slightest - it's the same thing i guess.

Would you do it for a CofE wedding over here if you were bridesmaid or whateevr.

ImSoNotTelling · 17/10/2009 10:48

Cripes my spelling.

Motions
CofE

PuppyMonkey · 17/10/2009 10:56

I'm lapsed Catholic and have been to loads of Catholic weddings (though now I recognise for the bollocks its is ) and you are so making a mountain out of a molehill, or she is, or someone is.

You can just go along and observe and not participate, no-one will point and laugh, no-omne will even notice you. If the bride is saying they will, she is wrong. And yes, you shouldn't really take Holy Communion unless you have been to Confession, so chillax.

StillSquiffy · 17/10/2009 11:04

what puppymonkey said. It is such a non-issue.

She is being Bridezilla, but I think there is an element of Guestzilla creeping in too. Don't make such a big deal out of it. The only reason she is herself is because she is in wedding meltdown. Just go and be discreetly respectful in a non-religious way. Bow your head, ignore the rest and no-one will gove a hoot. Just mumble non-commitedly about it when she asks, and she will go find something else to tear her hair out over.

BikeRunSki · 17/10/2009 11:07

Havn't read all the posts, but I am sometimes in a similar position. I am an atheist/Humanist from a madly Catholic family.

I will go to weddings, baptisms and funerals out of respect for my family or friends' wish for me to be there. I just don't say the prayers or say Amen. I reckon it doesn't count without the Amen. I am sure my Cathecism teacher told me that about 30 years ago.

A few years ago my mum-zilla sister asked me to be her DD's godmother. Goodness only knows what possesed her to even asked me as we are not really that close, and she knows my views on religion. I turned her down. She stropped, but got over it.

DS had a Humanist Welcoming Ceremony and has UnGodly Parents. His UnGodly mother promised to look out for him, be a shoulder to cry on and a body to hug, teach him right from wrong, good from bad, take him to bike races and how to identify a good red when he is older!

scariboo · 17/10/2009 14:49

Haven't read all the posts either since my last comment because for me it's clear: you should not participate in a Catholic mass unless you are a Catholic yourself. I know this FOR SURE because I asked the priest who celebrated dd's First Communion if I could, as an Anglican who has been confirmed, take communion at a Catholic mass. No, was his unequivocal reply. Although he did ask me if I had considered converting to Catholicism, of course!

So no matter how Catholic this nuptial mass is, you are not allowed to take Holy Communion as a non-Catholic. As an atheist or an agnostic, it would be pointless and disrespectful to do so. If you can locate a local Catholic priest, take your friend and ask. If she continues to insist, either refuse or find an excuse not to attend. Poor you! Persecution, isn't it? lol

rimmer08 · 17/10/2009 15:20

dont take part. if it is part of your beliefs that you DONT believe then YANBU. I am an atheist and would not do this so understand where you are comng from

pranma · 17/10/2009 15:34

You cant take communion [bread and wine]unless you are either a Catholic or a confirmed Anglican but you can stand in the line with your hands crossed on your chest to indicate that you are not taking Communion-it is quite usual and the priest would just bless you and move on.

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