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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think 18 months jail for giving 3-year-old a cigarette is excessive?

102 replies

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 17:04

See: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8308946.stm

"During that hearing, they heard that he handed the lit cigarette to the child and encouraged her to inhale it.

Conroy then persuaded another child, aged 14, to film it on a mobile phone for fun, the court heard.

But it was this that proved to be his undoing when the footage, which was recorded on 24 February, was discovered and he was reported to the police.

In the footage Conroy can be heard laughing and at one point someone is heard saying: "She'll smoke it all herself."

The court heard that when the girl put the cigarette out in an ashtray, she asked for another. "

This bloke is obviously as rough as old boots, and scummy too boot, but a 3-year-old is not going to suffer long-term health damage from smoking a cigarette like this, yet this bloke gets 18 months in prison.

OTOH, you can sit with four kids in your car/house with the windows up, smoking like a chimney, smoke in your baby's bedroom, whatever you like, and do it for years, and nothing will be done.

18 months is the same sentence as was handed down for grooming and raping a child recently www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Man-jailed-18-months-seducing-14-year-old-girl/article-1352791-detail/a rticle.html

OP posts:
R2G · 16/10/2009 00:04

yummyyummyyummy
The man in the 'rape' case didn't rape the child.She was 14 and consented .

I am so shocked and upset by what you have wrote here you need a serious education lady.

This 14 year old is a child. After being kicked out of her house for the night this child went to stay with this man. He gave her alcohol, got pissed himself and raped her- the pinnacle of his 'infatuation' after months of grooming!

Because a 14 year old child does not fight back, or confuses this with love, or is precocious and doesn't realise until she is older that she is not a consenting adult and was plied with alcohol and raped by a middle aged man doesn't mean that it is not rape.

And the man gets 18 months because he thought he was 'in love' with her and the judge somehow identifies with this 'emotion'.

Fuck off you sound just like the judge you idiot.

Children need protection especially in law, and young teenage girls are hideously vulnerable and have confused emotions. Many women on here may identify with sexual experimentation, sexual confusion with a boy of a similar age, pregnancy issues, emotions and problems at home, low self esteem, thinking you know it all and are grown up, hating yourself, loving yourself and thinking you are sexy etc etc

That is why parents of kids this age worry and fret because teenage CHILDREN may think they are adults but they do not have the experience or knowledge to make such decisions- which is why the law says they are CHILDREN and this is RAPE.

She is a CHILD not there to be taken advantage and judged by someone like you that she consented to give it away. What if she became pregnant she is too young to be having sex and wouldn't know the implications....unlike this adult married middle aged RAPIST

I'm so sad you can think that way

AanachronisticDeploy · 16/10/2009 00:05

No, I do not think it is excessive. Actually, I think that he should of gotten longer.

phoebeophelia · 16/10/2009 07:06

Far too excessive.

A bit of community service is about right IMO.

Wanderingsheep · 16/10/2009 07:28

I don't think it's excessive at all.

I'm shocked at the fact that someone would do this to a child. It's child abuse!

SixtyFootDoll · 16/10/2009 08:01

He got what he deserves
Its not just the smoking, its the recording and boasting about it that is so shocking.
As someone who works in child protection I am amazed he did get such a lengthy sentence, I have known sex offenders get less for indecent assaults on children.

iLikeDots · 16/10/2009 08:05

Not excessive in the slightest.

TitsalinaBumsquash · 16/10/2009 08:06

I dont think its excessive at all, its disgusting and filthy and i hope the child was removed asap.

As for the other case the guy should have been given a much longer sentence for being a pervert.

MoreCrackThanHarlem · 16/10/2009 09:23

To the Op, yabu. Not an excessive sentence imo, though I understand the point you are making wrt comparable sentences for much worse crimes.

The sentencing structure in this country is a joke imo. Crimes for monetary gain are deemed the most serious, with robbery and large scale fraud receiving sentences of 20 years plus, and dirty rapists and child abusers appearing to get off lightly in comparison.

A very sad indication of where the priorities of the powers that be lie.

MrsMagnolia · 16/10/2009 11:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

holytoast · 16/10/2009 17:00

Well hopefully he will have to do something horrible and shameful in prison in return for the fags he wants to smoke. Now that would be poetic justice.

Vile - for once they have actually got it right.

Original poster
SomeGuy · 16/10/2009 17:02

no, prison rape isn't amusing/a good thing.

I refer you to the 'transsexual sent to female prison' thread.

OP posts:
curiositykilled · 16/10/2009 17:11

don't think it was excessive TBH. I think he must have had previous offences though for the court to have been able to issue this kind of punishment.

Astrid28 · 16/10/2009 17:21

I read this story today and what made me feel terrible was that the child was filmed crying for more cigarettes.

It's child abuse, he's making her addicted to something against her will. Making her feel bad and she doesn't understand why.

Totally agree with Tryharder - what would be next on his list of things to do for a laugh?

spookyrookie · 16/10/2009 17:48

YABU I read this story and it made me cry that someone would even think of doing this to a toddler.

Rebeccadiamond · 16/10/2009 23:31

No. 18 monyh is the sentence. That means 9 served, in general. Getting a child of that age smoke?!!

JeremyVile · 16/10/2009 23:46

"This bloke is obviously as rough as old boots, and scummy too boot, but a 3-year-old is not going to suffer long-term health damage from smoking a cigarette like this, yet this bloke gets 18 months in prison.

OTOH, you can sit with four kids in your car/house with the windows up, smoking like a chimney, smoke in your baby's bedroom, whatever you like, and do it for years, and nothing will be done."

But the severity of a crime cant just be measured by the physical outcome of it, the intention has to count too.
Parents smoking round their children are selfish and possibly abusive (asthmatic kids, medical advice ignored etc) but that still cannot be compared to what this bloke did. He exploited this child for entertainment, he actively abused her with no regard for her health. It was a deliberate, thought out, exploitative act - very different to the passive smoking example.

havewonderedforyears · 17/10/2009 00:38

What this man did was vile imo.

To respond to the other half of your post, where you mention adults can smoke in their homes, even in kids bedrooms for years and nothing is done, imvho that is also vile, and anyone who smokes in an enclosed space where a child is present, should be charged with child abuse imvho.

Smoking around children is akin to child abuse, and there should be hefty penalties for any adult who does this.

I say this as a smoker myself.

jasper · 17/10/2009 00:46

I think it is excessive

LadyEvenstarsCauldren · 17/10/2009 01:10

no worse than this one

Gracie123 · 17/10/2009 09:12

Who was the three yr old? If it was his daughter she should be taken into care. If it was not his daughter, why would anyone leave their 3yo with someone like that.

In the words of Russell Howard:
'Ban your fanny until you can look after what pops out of it!'

Toffeepopple · 17/10/2009 09:53

I think it is a reasonable sentence.

WebDude · 17/10/2009 18:06

I think the idiot in the smoking case got off lightly, considering he won't spend all that time in prison anyway. It's appalling to think that this fool somehow felt it acceptable - had he been smoking weed and not thinking straight ?

As for the 40-year old father of two daughters, I think a 10 year stretch would have been more fitting, and I doubt his daughters will ever rekindle any love for their father, the dirty beast.

PeedOffWithNits · 17/10/2009 19:31

i think the sentence is reasonable as it will hopefuly act as a deterent to other knobs who might be tempted to do the same thing

some of the other crimes and sentences on here are unbelievable though - far too lenient

Original poster
SomeGuy · 17/10/2009 23:09

This is what you have to compare it with:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220904/Mother-claimed-130-000-benefits-sons-faked-illness.html

"An 'evil and cruel' mother caused her young son to undergo needless surgery and treatment at three hospitals during a six-year charade that he was seriously ill.

The woman conned the Royal Family and celebrities as she claimed £130,000 in benefits to spend on holidays and home improvements, a court heard.

Her son, who is now eight, was confined to a wheelchair in public and eventually hooked up to a drip.

Judge Stephen Wildblood QC indicated the mother will face a jail term of no more than three years and three months. "

Truly evil.

OP posts:
WebDude · 18/10/2009 14:49

"the mother will face a jail term of no more than three years and three months"

whether the sentence is "right" or not, she will know that no-one, neither prisoner or guard, will have any time for her if they know what she did. However many months "in Coventry" is that's what happens to her, will certainly be more punishment than someone else who gets the same length of sentence.