To think 18 months jail for giving 3-year-old a cigarette is excessive?

[SomeGuy]

See: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8308946.stm

"During that hearing, they heard that he handed the lit cigarette to the child and encouraged her to inhale it.

Conroy then persuaded another child, aged 14, to film it on a mobile phone for fun, the court heard.

But it was this that proved to be his undoing when the footage, which was recorded on 24 February, was discovered and he was reported to the police.

In the footage Conroy can be heard laughing and at one point someone is heard saying: "She'll smoke it all herself."

The court heard that when the girl put the cigarette out in an ashtray, she asked for another. "

This bloke is obviously as rough as old boots, and scummy too boot, but a 3-year-old is not going to suffer long-term health damage from smoking a cigarette like this, yet this bloke gets 18 months in prison.

OTOH, you can sit with four kids in your car/house with the windows up, smoking like a chimney, smoke in your baby's bedroom, whatever you like, and do it for years, and nothing will be done.

18 months is the same sentence as was handed down for grooming and raping a child recently www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Man-jailed-18-months-seducing-14-year-old-girl/article-1352791-detail/a rticle.html

Not excessive at all it was a sadistic and abusive act imho.This was a 3 year old not able to make her own decisions at all.I think this man must be incredibly stupid.

Well she hadn't smoked cannabis.

And no, it doesn't sound worse than the average abuse case you hear about.

I've seen a child of that age smoking in Asia, I guess children like to copy adults. I don't think she has suffered as much harm as
(a) children in households where parents smoke in the same room as children
or
(b) children in abuse cases where the offender has been sentenced to 18 months

I googled '18 months child abuse', and the first hit was about a man who forced a 5 year old to watch him having sex with another man.

Seems like a worse offence to me.

The guy was giving a toddler tobacco as entertainment.

It's not that this case is harsh, it's that the others aren't harsh enough.

I agree that when you read it it seems that one is "worse" than the other but IMHO, what one had to bare in mind is the intention behind it. The person who made a 3 yo smoke did it because it was funny for HIM not the 3yo, just as bad if you only consider the intention, it was not a mistake "oops I let the fags out and dd smoked one" it was let's get her to smoke, film her , have a good laugh and see if it will make other people laugh as well. Thankfully, other people did not laugh that much and he ended up in prison!

I think the other people did laugh, it was only later when the video footage was discovered that he got caught.

Wich means that someone who saw the footage did not find it funny. I cannot remember how the footage was discovered, I will go back to your Op.

Appalling that a child rapist got 18 months - bizarre set against this sentence for something horrible but hardly on a par with rape.

Is this some kind of joke?

Obivously YABU. Ridiculously unreasonable.

Are you a smoker?

That's child abuse- the man is a complete idiot.

A man got the same amount of time for grooming and raping a child? He should have got life.

encouraging a child to smoke is really sick and twisted but i too balked at the 18 month sentence... however i don't know how long that means he ACTUALLY spends in prison because i can't fathom out our system where people don't usually actually serve what they're sentenced to.

also, i don't want my taxes to go on holding people like this in jail - he should be doing some kind of seriously useful community service instead in my opinion.

whilst there are sentencing guidelines for offences which give a general minimum and maximum these are then considered against the facts of the individual case. So, there will be a starting point for this offence. If the defendant pleaded guilty at the first opportunity there will usually be a third discount to begin with. Consideration will be given to aggravating and mitigating factors present in the offence and then in respect of the individual offender. It is these fluctuations which allow for different sentences to be imposed in different situations. It is an important judicial function and means that the court can pass the correct sentence for this offence and this offender and not simply find themselves bound by a particular set of numbers. Therefore to compare one sentence with another without knowing all of the details presented to the court is a dangerous exercise.

I did wonder who he was and where the parents were. I'm guessing he is perhaps the mother's boyfriend. I think if he had been the father they would not be allowed to n ame him.

Ya not bu
It's a horrible crime but doesn't deserve 18 months in prison.

I don't think it's excessive.

I@m a smoker, but it makes me sick to think that someone actively encouraged a 3yr old to smoke a cigarette.

18m is not too harsh.

Making a 3y child smoke a lit cigarette is a form of abuse.

I don't understand how people can think it's too long. What goes on in people's heads?

no it should of been longer imo!!

"This bloke is obviously as rough as old boots, and scummy too boot, but a 3-year-old is not going to suffer long-term health damage from smoking a cigarette like this, yet this bloke gets 18 months in prison."

No long term health risks from smoking cigarettes??? For a 3y old? You have to be kidding surely?

Cigarettes are a known toxic product with serious health consequences.

The health risks to a little child must be massive!

And actually I do think that the health risks from smoking cogarettes directly are way in excess of those from passive smoking. Obviously the latter is far from ideal and not good, and do possess long term health risks - but it is reduced from actually smoking the darn things themselves.

And yes the 18m sentence for rape, and the other lower sentences are vile and disgusting. But regardless those do not mean that this is too excessive. It simply highlights that those sentences were too low.

PLease can people read the OP's posts - she is saying that if this warrants 18 months then is it on a par with other "18 month" offences?
I agree - this sicko deserves 18 months, something like rape deserves much more.
And yes, I'm sure if this is what we know about then there was other abuse going on, but this is what he's been sentenced for, this specific event, not "and unspecified abuse we assume must be happening"

Hulababy I am hugely anti smoking, but no I don;t think one cigarette will do long term damage to a 3yo. Would be interested to know if it's otherwise, although I doubt (and hope) any studies have been done

He physically and emotionally abused a child. Just because cigarrettes are socially acceptable, it doesn't mean he should get less of a sentence.

What if he had persuaded her to drink urine or eat dog mess and filmed it 'for a laugh'?

He's despicable and it serves him right. But he will be out in far less time anyway.

And of course the child rapist should have got a far harsher sentence.

If he had just given it one cigarette and filmed it I don't think he should have got jail at all. Clearly its the long term abuse, provision of cigarettes and the cannabis given to the 3 year old that is the problem.

My mother gave me a cigarette at 5 and I have never smoked since.

It's child abuse and the sentence is appropriate.

and as a smoker I can tell you that if the reports of 3 cigarettes being smoked before the filming took place (so presumably that'a 4 cigarettes in a relatively short space of time)are true it's bloody dangerous.

That could have caused a serious nicotine overdose - those smoker amongst us on this thread have probably experienced the mild effects of it before as adults - I know I have and it's not pleasant - for a child it can potentially kill them.

But the rapist, otoh, should have been locked up for life.

I am constantly astounded at the sheer apparent randomness of sentencing in the UK.

I'm sure passive smoking on a long-term basis is much more harmful than a single incident of actually smoking.

No cannabis was given to the child btw, it was just him showing him off to his fellow scallies.

Obviously we don't have the facts, but it sounds to me like she had a little puff, put it down and then asked for another. I really doubt she actually properly smoked 3 cigarettes.