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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think 18 months jail for giving 3-year-old a cigarette is excessive?

102 replies

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 17:04

See: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/8308946.stm

"During that hearing, they heard that he handed the lit cigarette to the child and encouraged her to inhale it.

Conroy then persuaded another child, aged 14, to film it on a mobile phone for fun, the court heard.

But it was this that proved to be his undoing when the footage, which was recorded on 24 February, was discovered and he was reported to the police.

In the footage Conroy can be heard laughing and at one point someone is heard saying: "She'll smoke it all herself."

The court heard that when the girl put the cigarette out in an ashtray, she asked for another. "

This bloke is obviously as rough as old boots, and scummy too boot, but a 3-year-old is not going to suffer long-term health damage from smoking a cigarette like this, yet this bloke gets 18 months in prison.

OTOH, you can sit with four kids in your car/house with the windows up, smoking like a chimney, smoke in your baby's bedroom, whatever you like, and do it for years, and nothing will be done.

18 months is the same sentence as was handed down for grooming and raping a child recently www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Man-jailed-18-months-seducing-14-year-old-girl/article-1352791-detail/a rticle.html

OP posts:

Hulababy · 15/10/2009 19:50

But was it just one cigarette? The article seems to indicate that the child knew what to do "she'll smoke it all herself" hinting tht they knew she would do it. This to me suggests they had done it before. I think someone else says she had been forced to do this at least 3 times before.

Yes, I agree that the rape of a child is a worse crime. IMO they shuld get a harsher sentence. However I do not think thsi sentence should be reduced. Instead I feel the other sentences should be raised.

chegirlknowswhereyoulive · 15/10/2009 19:52

I doubt if this was a random act. Normal parents do not film their children smoking fags. Children who have never smoked before would not be able to get through a fag without throwing up. She has done it before.

Cigerettes are full of poisons. There have been cases of children dying because they have eaten them.

The guy deserves to be locked up and the sentence is not too long. He wont serve half of it anyway.

The act of giving a child a fag and filming it is indicative of his attituded towards the welfare of his child. It doesnt look good.

MinkyBorage · 15/10/2009 19:52

The main point here is surely that he didn't really take it seriously, he though it was funny. Perhaps this will make him think again. imo not excessive at all. It's irrelevent comparing sentences for other greater and lesser crimes.

stickylittlefingers · 15/10/2009 19:59

Defendant was of no fixed address - he'll have one now.

Can't help but think this is an "example" case to say "it's not big, it's not clever, and you'll go to prison".

I do agree there is some irony in the fact that if you put the cig in the chil'd mouth, it's a prison sentence, but if you smoke sitting right next to them, it's nothing at all.

And the calibration of sentences does also seem all wrong. Are sentences generally tougher in Newcastle than Bristol, I wonder?

TotallyAndUtterlyPaninied · 15/10/2009 20:09

I'm so upset by this- Hulababy is spot on, obviously it's not a one off if they know she'll 'smoke it all herself'. How sad.

I'm so sick of hearing of scum of the earth abusing their children. How can people like that have children willy nilly when there's people who would give a child a good home going through IVF?

It is just unacceptable.

more · 15/10/2009 20:14

not excessive at all.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 15/10/2009 20:40

SomeGuy, why are you trying to make out that this isn't a serious issue?

The whole attitude of the adult male around this child was disgraceful. He was abusing her. Do you not see that? Do you not see that if it's not taken seriously by the courts then this man will not get the message that his behaviour is unacceptable and needs to be stopped in its tracks? Really - you don't get that?

Yes, 18 months for raping a child or grooming a child is not enough.

I simply don't understand why you are outraged by this sentence for this man? It's how it should be.

Bizarre pov from you, SomeGuy. Why aren't you posting with annoyance about those people who get low sentencing for child rape instead of this?

Ronaldinhio · 15/10/2009 20:43

was she just lighting it for him? If so 18 mths seems very excessive

yanbu

Original poster

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 20:43

Bizarre pov from you, SomeGuy. Why aren't you posting with annoyance about those people who get low sentencing for child rape instead of this?

Because they all get low sentences.

Yes he's a scumbag, but if 999 out of 1000 people get too low a sentence and the 1000th gets the right one, the 1000th one is the one worth talking about.

Sorry, but that's how it is.

PS. I couldn't find any evidence of children dying from eating cigarettes

OP posts:

ItsGrimUpNorth · 15/10/2009 20:48

But you're saying he's not got the right sentence though. That's what I find odd. Imo 18 months is nothing.

Original poster

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 20:49

18 months is right, but only if they apply similar sentencing tariffs to other criminals. Which they do not.

As horrible as he undoubtedly he is, it's not reasonable to single him out.

OP posts:

2rebecca · 15/10/2009 20:52

I really hope he has also been put on some sort of list as being unsafe to work or live with children. Is there a non sexual version of the child sex offenders register? This is a guy who just sees kids as pawns. He shouldn't be allowed near them ever again. At 31 his attitude to kids is unlikely to change.

alwayslookingforanswers · 15/10/2009 20:52

who said anything about eating cigarettes???

I take it you're not a smoker SomeGuy - I am - and I know the effects on me when I smoke too many in a row - my heart beats a lot quicker (horribly fast), I go dizzy and very light-headed and have to lie down. I dread to think what that would feel like for a child - as it makes me feel like absolute shite.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 15/10/2009 20:53

Ah, I see your point, SomeGuy.

So your real beef is the crap sentencing of other forms of child abuse.

Well, we'll never know why his sentence was as 'high' as someone who made a five year old watch him have sex with another man. It is bizarre.

Original poster

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 20:57

who said anything about eating cigarettes???

see above:

'Cigerettes are full of poisons. There have been cases of children dying because they have eaten them.'

OP posts:

shivster1980 · 15/10/2009 21:01

YABU

MrsJiggle86 · 15/10/2009 21:01

I dont think its long enuff!

mamakoukla · 15/10/2009 21:07

Is 18 months excessive? NO. My father's brothers and sisters did this to him 'for a laugh' and many decades later he still cannot kick the habit. It has impacted his health.

yummyyummyyummy · 15/10/2009 21:38

The man in the 'rape' case didn't rape the child.She was 14 and consented .

WRT the smoking case.Totally ridiculous sentence.How much is that going to cost the tax payer and how much is it going to damage the little girls relationship with her father.It was a darned irresponsible thing to do , but then so is subjecting kids to passive smoking.Perhaps we should lock up all smokers.(and I am not and have never been a smoker)

HoneySocks · 15/10/2009 21:40

no dont think it is too long, not long enough imo...

Original poster

SomeGuy · 15/10/2009 21:40

She was groomed. And it is rape because she's not legally capable of consent.

OP posts:

2rebecca · 15/10/2009 21:42

re the smoking case and thriceyummy. Where does it say the man was the child's father?

ItsGrimUpNorth · 15/10/2009 22:22

BBC news just said the man was jailed for "letting" the child smoke a cigarette.

Yeah, because the kid was clamouring for a fag, right?

The BBC really needs to work on its language.

AcademicMum · 15/10/2009 22:47

From what I've read, part of his defence was "well it wasn't the first time she's smoked". It also appears she smoked 5 whilst he was filming and 2 before that so 7 in total. That puts her at serious risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. This type of thing just makes me feel sick (and glad I stopped smoking some 5 years ago).

mumeeee · 15/10/2009 23:00

It's not excessive. He actually gave her the ciggertte and let her smoke it. It can do damage to her heatlh.

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