to be annoyed by namby (ineffectual) middle class parents?

[ElenorRigby]

I have started to bring the kids to a play area not far away in quite a well to do part of the city.

I was quite shocked to find really bad brat behaviour from children of middle class parents.

Picture: Tarquin, Tasha or whoever being shitty to their parents, other children, other parents.

Then Tarquin/Tasha's parents limply say something like "Oh dear, that's not very nice" "Please don't be like that" or so on

Their kids of course carry on as usual

yawns

InSync, that was precisely my point. You can't ask an 18 month old nicely to please not do things - you have to physically direct them (ie, hold their hands and walk with them, when they veer off the path physically direct them back). It's perfectly fine to nicely ask while physically directing them. It's unreasonable to expect a small person with no impulse control to politely cede to requests. As he gets older he may start listening to her requests, or he might decide that they don't have the force of authority and continue to ignore them, but atm she isn't getting the response she clearly expects.

My friend nicely asks her young toddler to not do standard toddler things, is angry when he happily ignores her, then writes him off as 'difficult'. Not exactly helpful IMHO.

He has lately been in nursery part-time and she is shocked at the difference in how well-behaved he is.

Oh, and yes, I have children.

The 'steering' bit is because, when walking with a toddler, you can place a hand on the top/back of their head and when they get distracted, gently nudge them back to the right direction while saying something to the effect of "we will look at the turtles later, sweetheart - right now we are going to meet daddy"

MillyR - we have the same rules and especially cannot bear children running round in restaurants. Nothing wrong with sensitive DSs either.

ElenorRigby - unfortunately your observation about some privately educated children is correct. Badly behaved, rude and frankly obnoxious. Our DSs go to fee paying Prep and some kids are out of control yet from nice middle class well off families.

preciouslillywhite -

I know an ineffectual mum with an Orla Kiely bag and purse. As a result I am anti Orla's bags. Which I suspect is unreasonable?

yanbu stleger.

only {realises hasn't bought a bag in 5 years, googles to help hersef out} Radley bags for the parents of well-behaved kids.

MillyR, it is interesting, and worrying, what you say about your children. I have also been firm with mine, and I also feel that they are not as confident in social interactions as their peers. I hope it will improve over time.

MillyR and emkana- me too. Hence many trips to Science Museum and the like where my dcs patiently queue up to go on things only to get barged out of the way by indulged offspring of lazy ineffectual mc parents!

Have thought on many occasions that I'm doing it Wrong. Trouble is I couldn't bear it if they were like that!

I do wonder though whether the tendency to see only the good in one's offspring behaviour is a product of reading too many twaddly books, which might perhaps be a class thing (and, no, I am not saying that only the middle classes read, but I get the impression that they are the main consumers of books on parenting). I know a woman who smiles beningly and says "Maximilien has always been so creative" as he scribbles on your wallpaper.

And isn't some of this ineffectual parenting about not recognising that the child is a child? The last time we went to the ceramics cafe, there was a child of about two clambering all over the seats and at great risk of overturning a table, knocking himself out and covering himself in paint and water, as well as breaking the mugs that other children had lovingly painted. His mother just waffled on at him about it "not being an acceptable way to behave". He's two, for Pete's sake. He's not a sixth former debating the norms of social behaviour.

I do wonder though whether the tendency to see only the good in one's offspring behaviour is a product of reading too many twaddly books, which might perhaps be a class thing (and, no, I am not saying that only the middle classes read, but I get the impression that they are the main consumers of books on parenting). I know a woman who smiles beningly and says "Maximilien has always been so creative" as he scribbles on your wallpaper.

And isn't some of this ineffectual parenting about not recognising that the child is a child? The last time we went to the ceramics cafe, there was a child of about two clambering all over the seats and at great risk of overturning a table, knocking himself out and covering himself in paint and water, as well as breaking the mugs that other children had lovingly painted. His mother just waffled on at him about it "not being an acceptable way to behave". He's two, for Pete's sake. He's not a sixth former debating the norms of social behaviour.

MadBadAWAA - am nodding along with you there. at Maximilien has always been so creative". Know a few parents like that and yes they have read all the books.

YABU - not a class thing, kids from all backgrounds are rude and badly behaved, it just irks more when it's from an affluent family as you consider that the parent has enough comfort in life to suffer the discomfort of disciplining a child, which to be fair, we'd all rather not have to bother with.

What I think is more annoying is when it's the (usually young) nannies at the park/playcentres who clearly can't be bothered to discipline and chat on their mobile phones while their wards chuck sand in other kids' faces or behave so agressively that you have to intervene for the safety of your child.

Park etiquette is so fascinating but I have low tolerance for people who don't discipline their children regardless of class.

I have to admit that like MillyR I often worry that my parenting approach will make my DC less confident adults (but then again I'm always worrying I'm doing a lousy job!). I suppose I'm quite strict about behaviour in public, considering others etc. I do feel sometimes that I'm constantly saying "no". However I also praise them when they're good and tell them how clever and special they are.

I think that children need to be encouraged to build self esteem, but there's a difference between being confident and being self-centered and inconsiderate. I sincerely hope that I'm not stifling my children's personal development, but I also think I owe it to society to bring them up to accept rules and be compassionate to others.

Surely it's all about balance?

Answer to MilliR: I am strict and my dd1 is a sensitive soul like your ds and I often wondered if it was because of the way we brought her up. Then came dd2... same rules apply to her but there's not a streak of sensitivity in her - she is a terminator! A much harder work to make her behave in a socially accepted way - still trying though - but she is as determined and assertive as they come.

BTW yes I hate that 'don't do that' and turning away.

Has anyway answered the question as to how you know what class someone is by looking at them ? Is it some sort of super power ?

Agree with Bolter. Think we have swung too far from 'children not being heard', to now 'children rule'.
Hope that the next generation will get the balance right.
Disagree with mydeadbody. Yes I meet lots of very pleasant teenagers. But you must be looking through rose tinted spectacles if you haven't got on a bus and felt a bit nervous.; seen all the reports of husbands being stabbed for asking children not to throw chips at his wife; asbo's that we have to question as to whether they are working; lack of respect towards teachers, anyone really.
Generally the way we treat eachother is not good and seems to be getting worse.
Do you not see that ?

Agree that Op is nothing about class. Mind you even within this thread there are different viewpoints on how to parent/discipline.
I always question my parenting ? Am I too strict ? Am I not strict enough.
No one I know parents like me. None of my friends/playground mums parent in the same way.
Everytime you ask a question, someone says its fine, someone says its not.
Oblomov questions what she is trying to say here ??

But the point is, it has nothing to do with class.

Sassybeast - an English-person can place another English-person's class within seconds of them opening their mouths, so for sure dress gives anyone away.

Disclaimer: class offensive possibly but definitely not sexist

Fnar at 'kind hands' That is classic.

Oh I will have to remember that one for my DC. Twill make them fall about.

Could it be that the children atttending the 'comps in impoverished areas' have such behavioural problems because they have too much confidence.

On the serious side, one teacher I know said it was harder to control children who recieved really strict discipline at home because frankly, the teachers angry tone and threat of detention felt like water off a ducks back in comparision to the discipline they normally encountered. Hence they were not afraid of being punished at school or intimidated by authoritarian figures.

So maybe it works in reverse.

But think O.P does have a point.

YANBU - although I can see why people disagree. Perhaps they don't live in middle class enclaves, like I have.
I remember being rendered (almost) speechless by the (non) reactions of certain mc parents to their "creative" children's behaviour at toddler groups. Ditto at the park. Parents from the local estate (of which I was one) seemed to be far more on the ball.
I have a theory though, which is that in certain circles it is an advantage to be obnoxious, arrogant and selfish. If you want your dc to do well with the local gangs, or to get ahead in banking (apologies to nice bankers), then you'll encourage it. If you live in a rough area and you'd rather your child avoided a life of crime, you're likely be stricter than you'd have been if you lived in a "nicer" area. The stakes are higher, I guess.
The parents who aren't worried about their dc going on to a life of crime don't take their dc to the same toddler groups, parks etc as we do so we don't see them.

Oh this definitely exists and has even been observed by my ds1 aged 13 who seems to be a natural sociologist.

When he goes to vist his dad they go to a very much middle class enclave of London where he says the younger kids are left to do as they like in the cafe and park area (in the name of creative expression ). I think the difference is that there seems to be a misplaced sense of pride on the part of the parents who think their little darlings are behaving in an extra special way. Whereas I would see a need to rein them in in that situation and I consider myself to be a fairly laid back parent.

if they do correct them there is always this faux cheeriness associated with it!

We also all witnessed this last weekend where we were at a childrens sports course. The younger sibilings were wrapping themselves up in nets hanging from the ceiling, playing with balls in a restricted area.

DS1 and I were raising our eyebrows at each other and when the names were called out even more inward laughter. So typical!!

I do not say all of this in a malicious way but it is interesting to observe.

this phenomenon

marenji

my two year old would go ballastic if I turned him with the top of his head!

Reins were even worse, I either strap him in his buggy or expect it to take 20 minutes to walk down the road

as for kids that hit - the ONLY thing that stopped my DS1 from hitting/kicking etc was totally ignoring it. If you told him off he would grin and do it again.

I would always apologise though.

To the OP - I hate those sorts of parents though, my parents live in OXford and I get shocked at how rude the kids can be (we live in a roughish area in Manchester!), it's the condension I can't bear

yanbu, I'm mc and live in a v mc area but it irritates me too.

have come across many examples of parents who won't say no to thir children, raise their voices even slightly or discipline them in any way. There's a definite phenomenon of parents being scared of their children and not daring to challenge them.

As other posters havesaid there's a difference betweenconfident respectful children and arrogant, self-obsessed little brats with a msiplaced sense of entitlement who seem to be ebcoming more and more the norm.

kids need fair and consistent boundaries alongside praise and affection end of.