to be annoyed by namby (ineffectual) middle class parents?

[ElenorRigby]

I have started to bring the kids to a play area not far away in quite a well to do part of the city.

I was quite shocked to find really bad brat behaviour from children of middle class parents.

Picture: Tarquin, Tasha or whoever being shitty to their parents, other children, other parents.

Then Tarquin/Tasha's parents limply say something like "Oh dear, that's not very nice" "Please don't be like that" or so on

Their kids of course carry on as usual

the only reason it's always "namby middle class" parents is because all the brats of lower class benefit scroungers are robbing the houses of those same middle class parents whilst they are our ineffectually parenting. *

It's got fuck all to do with class.

• Obviously I am joking

I think adults of all classes have lost the plot when it comes to parenting - since when did we put the kids in charge in our schools and on our streets? Since when did we stop saying "no" and start praising their every fart? Who dares tell a teenager off on the bus nowadays, when that hulking great child in an adult body will never have heard the word "no" before, and will believe that anyone not providing them with precisely what they want at the exact moment they want it, is failing to show them "respect" (and may therefore be deserving of a mouthful of abuse or a knife). Drives me fucking titless, the lack of boundaries we are giving our children.

MillyR, I wouldn't despair. Self confidence is over rated, imho.

sickof I'm not sure we live on the same planet

All the teenagers I encounter on busses are very polite, if a bit awkward and self-conscious. Certainly they are not to be feared.

I hate all this rose tinted nonsense about things being worse now than ever before. What tosh.

Things are different, that's all.

I like children, even the ones in their teens.

Sick, believe me though, it'll all swing the other way when the intellectuals of the next generation start analysing the fucked-up future deluded of this one.

It'll all swing back round, believe me.

overmydeadbody - you must go on nicer buses than me then. Try top deck in some parts of London after school and then let's talk.

[horrified emoticon]

scrolling idly through the thread, I found I agreed with ABetaDad

Overmydeadbody, I like teenagers too, but I have also been on the receiving end of the kind of behavior that makes you despair of the human race. I have been spat at, called a cunt, had objects thrown at me repeatedly (whatever came to hand), my dh was accused of hitting them as he walked past, they targeted an old lady who lived opposite us and they seemed to have complete immunity from any kind of sanction. I was targeted because I told one of them to stop drawing on my wall.

It all gives you a different perspective.

YANBu, though i think it is reasonable to extend this to all ineffectual parents -

all of them of course are rubbish, apart from me

this is an other peoples kid's thread, isn't it?

And bolter, I think you are right. We swung too far the other way after the horrible generations of corporal punishment and "children should be seen and not heard" and now we will probably one day swing back, though hopefully not to those bad old days. I don't have the answer, except I do think it's the parents' responsiblity, not the school's or society's or the government's.

It's not exactly ineffectual parenting, quite a few of my close friends pour huge efforts into being this sort of parent. It's been quite a shock to me that I seem to particularly like the sort of adults who believe in not saying no and not being negative and letting the little darlings express themselves however and wherever they choose.

And the parents are lovely, my close friends (not mumsnetters, she hastily adds, or not as far as I know) but i could live without exposure to children being parented in this way, frankly. Am interested to see if they do all grow up to be charming socially responsible people (like their parents). And even if they do, I am not sure it's worth it to have children who everyone shudders and groans about having to have round. Even if they do grow up with bags of self esteem.

Betadad, sickofsocalledexperts, Morosky, seaglass.
I started going to that park because I wanted the kids to be around nice well mannered children.
Previously (we have moved recently) went to parks/Sure Start's in really rough areas of the inner city. Ironically we found the children in those rough inner city places (mostly immigrant children btw) more well behaved than the children in the well to do park.
I have been to that park 5 times in the last 3 weeks. Four out of those five times I have come across at least one child with shocking manners to thier parents, other parents or other children. Once I had to use my death stare/death voice to a 5yo who was up for pushing my 2 yo off the top of a slide. My 6yo DSD would never dream of being rough to a little one.
I really shocked and disapointed that children of middle class parents have kids that behave this way. I had been seriously considering have DD2 privately educated, so she could be around well mannered, motivated children. We have got reconsider that now!

sickof and Humphrey you are right of course

I like to believe that human beings are essentially ok though. I know my feelings are skewed a lot my where I live and by the teenagers I know.

My dsis does this with her dc but she is as rough as old boots so YABU.

I really don't think the ability to use just the right amount of discipline is a class thing - you see good and bad parenting spread equally among the classes, IME. And it really is a fine line between harsh and firm - often difficult to get it right. I suspect I'm often harsh.

But I do know exactly the ineffectual "Oh please stop biting that little boy, darling" stuff you're talking about.

OMDB - Larkman? If so - respect .

Cometrickortreatingwithme

Scottishmummy, what is wrong with saying the child may have SN? It's possible after all. When I see kids behaving really badly, I always consider the possibility of SN because I know parents with SN kids who struggle and who are constantly judged by others because their kids look 'normal'.

There are good and bad parents in all classes; My neighbour's kid was horribly spoilt and indulged - a complete Tarquin. I'm sorry to say he's a very confident young man. It doesn't seem just.

Bingo Hassled, I survived a year of it.

My friend does this with her 18 month old. "Oh dear, that's not very nice" sounds pretty typical. And she has just resigned herself to having a 'difficult' child.

We went to the park the other day. It is two minutes' walk from my house down a single street - not even crossing any roads! She was concerned about making the journey because she didn't have the toddler reins on her!

The entire walk it was "oh dear, mustn't pull the leaves off" "dearie, don't walk into the the person's garden"

And I was bemusedly thinking, has no one ever told her toddlers can be steered by the crowns of their wee heads??

Molly - I think that I brought my children up (they are now 8 and 11) with rules like - don't be noisy in restuarants, don't push, don't snatch, don't throw things in shops, stand, queue for the swings rather than pushing in; I notice a lot of parents don't do this kind of stuff anymore, or do pay lip service to it in an ineffectual way.

I think that I have tried to bring my children up to understand that other people are important and they should be considerate, but in the process of doing so I sometimes feel as if my children perhaps feel that they are less important than other people. As a consequence of that my children perhaps lack confidence in social interactions, or lack assertiveness. They feel competent (academic/practical stuff) but not confident (social). DS is in year 7 at secondary school, and his form teacher referred to him as a 'sensitive soul'. I am not sure that is altogether a good thing!

I hope that makes sense.

one wonders why comps in impoversihed areas tend to have such issues with behaviour, if the OP has a point...

So how am I supposed to tell Tarquin off then?

If its not OK to say 'please stop doing that darling', and its presumably not OK to yell, 'I fuckin said NO!' as I witnessed someone do in Primark today (Ive no idea what class they were and TBH Ive no idea what class I am either-how is it defined?serious question-I've no idea really)what is the most effective way to stop a child doing something, and in particular when in public when you dont or cant for whatever reason raise your voice?

Maybe I should ask GB at lunchtime tomorrow, he may know?

Well I'm one of those parents .if my kids are doing something wrong and they would very rarely be unkind to anyone.I ask them politely to stop doing it and they do.What is wrong with that ?

OMG marenmj have do you have kids? You don't sound like you have TBH. Your friend's 18 month old was just behaving like a normal 18 month old. That's what they do.