,, to HATE "your baby, your rules"

[seeker]

A baby is not owned by anyone. It it part of a nuclear family, an wider family, a community.....

Other people have the right to a say in a baby's upbringing. Of course the parents are the ultimate 'authority" but other people should be involved too.

Equally I think babies quite like rules, I'm much more relaxed with my older children than I was but that comes with a) experience and b) confidence and c) having other children so you are too knackered to care

it's not nearly the most annoying phrase (that is happy mother = happy baby. Fact!)

I think we have to respect other peoples ideas as it is them that have to deal with the process and consequences of what they do with their kids.

guidelines are often thought out by people working from statistical studies of thousands - they will advise everyone to do X or not to do Y if it is bad for as few as one in a thousand of kids - we don't deal with thousands. we just deal with our own dc's. i find it annoying that people forget this and treat said guidelines as though they were carved by God and handed to Moses on a stone tablet.

quite often people are justifiably aggrieved by the meddlngs of other people

though yes, as you have more kids, or your kids get older you do worry less about that afternoon of law breaking ruining them forever, but on the other hand - when, after a single evening of MIL encouraging toddler to throw toys, i spent the next two weeks getting her not to - that's not going to endear her to my heart, is it?

so YANBU - but other people, however involved, should always respect the parents views.

If you keep it simple then it is much easier for everyone to comply. If you hand the baby over for someone else to look after it is easy to give up to 3 instructions, verbally, if you start to tell them every little detail, for every possibility, and assume that they have no common sense, that is when they start to roll their eyes- and are likely to ignore the lot!

YABVVVU. The mother and father get to bring their child up how they wish. I hate all this 'it takes a village' crap. All views on raising a child are different and it is only the mother and father's opinions that count.

They can't have rigid control all the time. It is healthy for the DC to have a relationship with other people who may do things differently.

Sorry can't remember who replied to me (just got back from the hospital after another damn labour scare... Grrr...) - I entirely agree about being flexible, and of course your opinions and desires for the routine will alter. I heard someone today describing parenting like a recipie - there's a basic layout and plan that you follow, but sometimes you add different spices and flavours. I like that

Sounds good Erika . I don't think that anyone minds being given the basic layout-they just object to having to follow the rest slavishly-they prefer their own variation. As long as it isn't going to spoil the end result, it makes life more interesting. In fact I think it is an excellent analogy.

I'm not sure either way.

As parents, DH and I are legally responsible for our children. If anything happens, it's down to us.

I'm not really sure what wider community the op is talking about. For example, our relatives live minimum 90 minutes away and so day-to-day care and responsibility from them isn't really part of my dcs lives. School is part of ds's life now but what wider community? Nobody else is going to take responsibility for my children around here!

So, I feel that given the big responsibility, people should really respect our rules and the way we'd like to bring up our kids. I'm not really talking about chocolate buttons here but bigger issues we've had to confront like early weaning erm, with chocolate buttons or literal contempt for bfing from relatives.

Also, I think we should be a bit kinder to new parents in particular. It's such a massive adjustment with loads of potential anxiety, pressure and worry - it's little wonder some people become more controlling and concerned. I think some people just need a lot longer to adjust. Not everyone takes to it like a duck to water.

Sometimes, parents really can't win, can they? They're damned if they show too much concern and worry about what their kids are allowed to do/not to do and also damned if they're not concerned enough. It's very hard to strike a balance imo.

Plus there is the issue of interfering, controlling relatives but I think toxic wider families have already been eliminated from the debate, right? Well, I hope so because unless you've actually experienced what it's like to have someone who actively seeks out to undermine your parenting choices and make you feel like a rotten parent, you probably wouldn't understand how it would drive one to become controlling to make sure a mile wasn't taken instead of that inch.

Good post, Itsgrim.
Particularly like this bit

"Also, I think we should be a bit kinder to new parents in particular."

As others have noted parents tend to relax their rules a bit with subsequent children.

"but grandmas often ARE wrong becasue they do not know about lastest guidelines for weaning ages/sleeping positions etc - so their arguement of "i have
raised children myself you know" is not good enough"

Just because someone did something differently to what current guidelines say doesn't make them wrong and you right.

I think people are too obsessed with what "the guidelines say" and and spend too much time doing things because "the guidelines are to do x and y" and seem to have lost the instincts to follow their baby's q's and do things according to their own baby's needs rather than because that's what the books say.

Also, some people who are quite militant about certain guidelines ie weaning seem to have complete double standards when it comes to others. i.e. the guidelines are not to wean before six months so "the guidelines are there for a reason and therefore you should listen to them and follow them, why would you put your baby at risk." whereas the guidelines also say that parents should not co-sleep and yet "co-sleeping is fine as long as you do it safely." etc.

And what people tend to forget is that when they have their own grandchildren, the guidelines will almost certainly have changed. Imagine if they've changed back to something they told their own mothers was wrong when they were bringing up their own dc.

IMO it's all about balance. And generally most parents do relax somewhat as children get older. Having said that, the control freakery, and sheer fear that someone else will have an influence on their child never ceases to astound me. For eg the "someone told my child about God, how dare they. Someone told my child that people die. My child is not old enough to know about death, he's just ten. Someone told my child there's a war on. Children don't need to know about that." And on.

Also, some people who are quite militant about certain guidelines ie weaning seem to have complete double standards when it comes to others. i.e. the guidelines are not to wean before six months so "the guidelines are there for a reason and therefore you should listen to them and follow them, why would you put your baby at risk." whereas the guidelines also say that parents should not co-sleep and yet "co-sleeping is fine as long as you do it safely." etc.

that's exactly what i was thinking about, wannabe. being told weaning early is 'dangerous' as opposed to something sensible ie 'may have increased risk of gastroenteritic disease' and getting a drubbing for not believing those same professionals we rightly question to death when we get to grill them re: co-sleeping is indeed a case in point.

@erika...labour scare eh - do you have a webphone so you can clue us in as you go >cheeky question, you may have other things on your mind

It depends on the situation.

Both sides to a degree need to respect and tolerate each others ways.

I accept that ds will have more chocolate biscuits when he is with his grandparents and I don't really mind because I think it is quite sweet that grandparents want to treat their grandchildren. It can go too much the other way though, once mil took ds out for the afternoon and I asked her to make sure that ds didn't have too many snacks as I was cooking a roast dinner, she came back and said "he won't need dinner because I fed him in McDonalds" I felt she had overstepped the mark as I specifically told her that I was preparing a meal for him.

I just think if a parent wants advice, they can ask for it. If they don't ask for it, it means they don't want any. And that includes grandparents.

I still want to know more about this community that's supposed to be helping me bring up my children. I've seen no evidence yet.

no no itsgrim, when a parent wants advice, it is thrown at them from every angle whether they have asked or not...

when they want help ..there's a different thing...

I didn't think it was about asking for advice-it isn't something that grandparents should do IMO, unless asked. I thought it was about parents exerting control over their DC, even when not there, instead of accepting that a grandparent might do something slightly differently and it really won't matter.

"And what people tend to forget is that when they have their own grandchildren, the guidelines will almost certainly have changed. Imagine if they've changed back to something they told their own mothers was wrong when they were bringing up their own dc. "

Yep, and when I have gcs, I will respect the wishes of their mother/father and do exactly as they prefer.

They may not have any specific preferences but they're their kids and not mine so what they say goes.

Why would I mind that? Why would anybody mind doing that? It's about respecting the parents and their responsibilities. No big deal.

I guess guidelines change as we learn more and more about factors that affects a baby's health i.e. back to back campaign, weaning too early can bugger up a baby's bowel.

If you trust someone enough to leave your babies with them then you should let them do it their own way. If you don't like their way, look after them yourself.

I dont think its a black and white situation.

I agree in terms of smoking around kids and saying "my baby, my rules" and stuff like that then it is something to despair over. But when it comes to advising someone of your childs bedtime routine, such as the time they should be in bed etc then yes, you should either stick to the rules or say you cant do the babysitting. I dont think thats being draconian, I think thats being fair to the child who is used to the routine and would be upset by a big disruption. I also think this applies to food stuff; you may not want your small child eating crisps or drinking pop and of they're not used to it and get a sugar overload at grannies then thats bad.

I do think its swings and roundabouts though and that it depends on every situation and every parent/child/carer combination. Personally I wouldnt have MIL looking after DD as she never follows any rules or boundaries and SIL (who has no-one else familywise) dreads picking her sleep-deprived, sugar overdosed son up from there. However we have alternative family (mine, and this is DHs idea, not just me bitching about his mother!!! ) who agree to follow our rules for the benefit of DD. I dont mind her getting treats at nanas, but when it disrupts her schedule then I will put my foot down.

Yanbu!

CeeUnit, I could not agree with you more!

yanbu

i cringe every time i read it

EAP I'm sure I can get someone to spread the message for me!! I know I wouldn't be forgiven if I didn't, several people have made that clear already

Hear hear, ceeunit! I would only make an exception for really major things like smacking and genuine food allergies (not fads).

Someone earlier in the thread complained that people don't want to help parents out. I think that's true but that it is at least partly due to control freakery.

YANBU - I hate this saying too. If a relative/friend is concerned about a child's safety or development, they should be poking their nose in (out of concern!). What kind of world would it be if we all just didn't care...

YANBU - I am so sick of hearing this on here.

I agree that it is often 1st time parents who say this (and then often change their mind after subsequent children, just going to show how 'fickle' those set-in-stone rules really were).

I cringe to think of me having a fit at MIL when she let 3 month old DS1 sleep on her til 6pm one evening (I wanted to get him into a routine) - I will be ashamed of this until I die - hope she has forgiven me

Some very interesting points on this thread.

With our own dc we had to adapt things to our circumstances - things which made having certain routines were impractical for us.

I have always been very comfortable with reacting instinctively - and recoil from the idea of controlled crying or declarations that a small baby is trying to manipulate the parent........... never caused me a problem as a parent, but has challenged me for every ounce of tact as a grandparent.

One thing's for sure, some battles are more important than others - such as the safety issues in use of car seats, not smoking around children, awareness that some foods (particularly in excess) can cause problems for the child, etc.

I'm with your view wholeheartedly too, CeeUnit