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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to interfere and ring this mum's HV?

79 replies

smokinaces · 08/10/2009 14:36

Was in supermarket this morning. Took the boys on the 50p ride ons, and as we were finishing another boy came over with his mum telling him he couldnt go on.

We were trying to get the kids in the trolley, as she was trying to get her son to come with her. The ride ons are in a lobby bit at the back of the shop, leading onto the pedestrain access.

Anyway, she stormed off, shouting at her son that if he didnt come now, he could stay there on his own. Fair enough, I have done that a few times myself.

We followed her round, thinking she'd be waiting for him to chase after her, round at the newspaper bit (round a bend, my kids get freaked by the time I get there and catch me up)

But she didnt stop.

She stormed through the supermarket, to the other entrance/exit. She left the shop and stormed off to the other end of the car park to her car. Without really a backward glance.

I didnt see anyone else with her or the son - when we left him he was most definately on his own on the rides, and didnt see another adult (though they could have been at the cigarette counter)

He definately didnt follow us out of the shop.

Now, I know of this mum through a friend of a friend, so know she's a single mum and had a real hard time of it - but I cant stop thinking I need to do something. I wish I had gone back into the shop to make sure he was ok and she came back. I wish I had stopped her and asked if she was ok.

I know who her health visitor is - and know them quite well. Do you think its interfering too much to ring them? I just think she might need help - we've all threatened to leave our kids, but she went too far IMO.

so AIBU to ring her health visitor and mention this?

OP posts:
KimiTheThreadSlayingAxeKiller · 09/10/2009 08:04

No I am not saying that, I am just sick of people always saying "oh don't judge mum could be having a bad day" some people are just unfit parents, face it

LoveBeingAMummy · 09/10/2009 08:04

The mum is probably feeling just the same as you, "how could i have done that"

I understand why you did what you did. If you know the hv to talk too then there is nothing wrong in speaking to her without names. Or even saying you saw a thread on mn what would happen if hv involved

You can't not do anything as it is affecting you so much, so either speak to the mum in which cause you then cannot speak to hv without outing yourself really OR just speak to HV.

I know which I would do but its whatever you feel comfortable with.

KimiTheThreadSlayingAxeKiller · 09/10/2009 08:08

I reported a mother at the school to the SS for hitting her child so hard round his 7 year old head she floored him, and no it was not about feeling superior to her, it was about stopping her abusing her child.

Trillian · 09/10/2009 08:09

Me thinks chandon protests too much, been shopping lately?

girlsyearapart · 09/10/2009 08:13

chandon- that was an unfair comment about the feeling superior. I couldn't see any kind of superiority in her post.

The HV may not contact SS anyway and if they do so what? If a 2 year old is being left alone then clearly someone needs to do something.

claw3 · 09/10/2009 09:20

When my eldest was at primary school, i used to go in once a week and help with reading on a one to one basis.

While reading this little boy confided in me that he was sad because he was made to sleep on the balcony, it was cold and he didnt like sleeping there etc.

I spoke to the teacher about this, it turned out that this little boys family had been made homeless and were staying with relatives and by balcony, he meant the upstairs passage.

Just goes to show, things are not always as they seem.

dilemma456 · 09/10/2009 09:33

Message withdrawn

QuintessentialShadowsOfDoom · 09/10/2009 10:02

I dont think the ss knocking on the door is always a bad thing.

Did the mum not even turn around to check that her little boy came running after her so she could prevent him crossing a busy supermarket car park on his own?

AtheneNoctua · 09/10/2009 10:33

Let's talk about Fran Lyon. Had to flee the country to keep her child. I think we have all seen horror stories on here. They seem unable to help those in need and unable to recognise when they are in fact not needed.

The thing is no one on this thread (including the OP!) actually knows that no one else was watching the child when the mum walked out. Possibly, mum and boy wre with another mum and child. And when mum mum said she was leaving she did so knowing friend was still there watching him. We simply don't know. And reporting her to HV/SS is not just something that will harm her but is also something that could harm the boy. In fact I don't see the two things are separable. Surely help for one of them benefits the other as well. SO this is not a case of him vs. her.

If we knoew that the mum really did abandon a two year and leave the supermarket, then I would change my tune. But, we don't know that. And, frankly it's very hard to believe this is what happened. And calling the HV/SS when in fact you might be wrong is very dangerous path to take.

slowreadingprogress · 09/10/2009 11:17

thing is with the high profile cases like Fran Lyon the social services are always legally prevented from sharing the information they have with the media, whereas the individual is not. I have worked in SS and I know that in 99.9% of cases there is a huge hinterland of background information which the media and we as the public never see, which is right and proper, however it does skew what is reported and we shouldn't ever feel we are able to make an informed judgement on these cases because we are simply not in a position to.

on the OP, personally, I would mention it to the HV, yes. The child is only 2 and what you saw is someone who (for whatever reason, end of tether, lack of support, exhaustion, all v understandable) was not dealing safely with their child in that situation. No harm in mentioning it, the HV can perhaps offer a little more support for a while. It doesn't mean SS referral necessarily!

edam · 09/10/2009 11:42

sounds like a very distressing thing to see and can understand why at the time you didn't go back to him but are now kicking yourself.

Re. Fran Lyon - actually she would have been unable to talk to the media once her baby was born. It was only because SS were so aggressive while she was pregnant that she was able to seek help. She appealed to SS to be open about her case but they refused.

Secrecy is sometimes a legal obligation on SS but is equally sometimes used as a weapon to silence parents - in some cases those involved in proceedings have been threatened that if they contact their MP, for example, they could be imprisoned for contempt of court. I think one grandfather was, even though his grandson was about to turn 16 and was making very serious allegations about being abused while in care. If the grandfather had waited a few weeks, there would have been no risk to him - but he didn't want to wait, he wanted to stop the abuse.

Secrecy cuts both ways - it is not something that SS suffer from.

tri1010 · 09/10/2009 11:45

I think you should contact the health visitor it's then up to them if they take it further.

If one of the mums i'm friends with did this i would know it was a bad day and out of character and wouldn't contact hv i would take them for a coffee, but I think that because you are questioning it you must be uneasy about how she is coping alone and have concerns so i would ring them to take it off your shoulders.

Also, all the people saying grandma may have been there, how many of you do supermarket shops with your mums? Surely if grandma was around she would have taken him to park or stayed at home with child to give mum a break rather than coming along to the supermarket?

slowreadingprogress · 09/10/2009 12:06

Client confidentiality is always a legal obligation to SS. Why do you think SS were aggressive? Do you think it might have been based on information they held? Or that they sat down together and thought "oh, we've no evidence but hey, lets hound a woman today!"

It is absolutely pointless to discuss these high profile cases because we do not have the information.

Jamieandhismagictorch · 09/10/2009 13:01

smokinaces you needed to do something at the time (I know you have acknowledged this). It is very sad that it was not your instinct to do so. I don't mean to sound judgmental because I think it's a situation we have all faced at one time or another. I do think though, that we are all responsible for helping children.

dilemma - how do you know the woman was not "beyond the limits of her endurance ?"

We have no more reason to assume this was a one-off than we do to assume that this child is in real danger in a frequent basis, just that we don't like to think that this could be going on.

I think that you should report this to her HV

AtheneNoctua · 09/10/2009 13:06

They wanted to take her baby away based on the testimony of a doctor who had never met her. They refused the testimony of doctors who did know Fran. Fran asked for them to come supervise her rather than removed the baby. They refused.

There is no excuse for the way they treated Fran. I wonder how she and Molly are now. Molly must be... oh I don't knwo... a toddler by now.

BalloonSlayer · 09/10/2009 13:18

What a peculiar thread this is.

You wonder why the mother did not bodily pick up her child. Ah, the setting is in a supermarket.

I would guess the most likely explanation is that the mother "stormed off to the other end of the car park to her car," put her shopping in it, and returned so that now she was no longer carrying shopping she could pick her child up and carry him bodily to the car.

Thus leaving her child unattended for three or four minutes and hopefully putting the wind up him slightly. I would never do that myself, it gives me nightmares even thinking about it.

However, the OP was there, and the mother in question knows her vaguely. Perhaps - and it would be presumptuous of her - she thought the OP would keep an eye out for her DS while this little charade was being played out. ( and foolish, given that the OP left him to it and now wants to report her.)

I would guess that if the child had gone missing it would be all over the news today.

And if he was found my a kind person and taken to customer services they would have called the police.

BalloonSlayer · 09/10/2009 13:19

by a kind person

BobbingForPeachys · 09/10/2009 13:31

I think it depends hugely

If the HV is the sort who thinks SSSD are the answer ro all things then no,certanly not.

If she's a bit moreresourceful- then maybe so. Homestart might be able to offer valuable help for example, or even just a callround and a cup of ten with nowt mentioned to see if she is OK- I mow there have been times a HV dropping by would have helped immenssely in getting the help my pride prevents medemanding iyswim?

BobbingForPeachys · 09/10/2009 13:34

I'm always saddnened when I read of these stories about SD.

I have no reason to doubt them, but they do add to my frustartion with the postcode lottery of support services as I have sat in meetings begging them to take a child (via woprk) whom I think is at mortal risk only to be told they would rather wait and see. I am talking small children wandering the streets at 3am, parents actively punching a later term baby in uetero to punish it etc.

If only there was a sensible middle way.

vvvodka · 09/10/2009 13:41

hmmm, i once stormed off and left 11 year old ds in chessington outside gates. got in the car, and drove off, all the way to roundabout, about a mile and a half away. took me that long to calm down from the way the little shit was behaving. i do love my son dearly. but he was seriously getting to me. and whilst he may be 11, there was no way he would have known how to get home from chessignton world of adventures. we live a half hours drive away, and he wouldnt have a clue how to get back on public transport, let alone the fact that he had no money on him

i then spent a very anxious hour scouring the car park and surrounding area looking for him. he never ever has his phone on him. when i eventually found him, i was alomost near tears, but as soon as i saw him , i was soo relieved and agnry at the same time, i really laid into him, but you know what? i am really grateful that no one called social services. people reach the end of their tether sometimes, and they just need space to calm down. and leaving a child in a public place on their own is better than leaving them in a locked house on their own.

Stigaloid · 09/10/2009 13:54

vvvodka - leaving an 11 year old and a 2 year old are slightly different scenarios.

lilyjen · 09/10/2009 14:19

vvvodka hope you never do anything so irresponsible again...big diff 11 yr old and 2 yr old...still awful though sorry!

MillyMollyMoo · 09/10/2009 16:54

Vvvvvodka, you just can't do things like that and expect to keep control and respect of teenagers. If you start going off in a stroop he'll think you're an idiot and will not look to you for guidence about the important stuff.
Pull yourself together next time and drive off with him in the car muttering obsenities under your breath.

vvvodka · 09/10/2009 17:19

lol, then he repeats them back to his dad, and i get more aggro?
i know what you mean thouhg. i was just trying to use an example to illustrate that the mothere the op was referring to may well have been at the end of her tether. and a little compassion wouldnt go amiss

Oblomov · 09/10/2009 17:32

Ring her HV ? How dare you ?
I can't believe I am reading this.