T o let my son chase pigeons

[mrsruffallo]

DS loves chasing flocks of pigeons. Every time we go to the park he and his friends scream with delight as they fly away.
Woman in the park today got very angry and told me that 'pigeons have feelings too' and that IT WAS CRUEL.
Funnily enough there was something along similar lines on CBeebies the other day.
AIBU to think it's just a bit of fun?

Agree that the pigeons are unlikely to feel terrorised, I doubt their brains are big enough to feel anything more than very basic instincts.

So it's not some woolly minded thing about respecting pigeons rights! It's about the basic principle that you don't go charging at any living thing for your own amusement. It's also a pretty anti social thing to do, because it isn't pleasant for anyone else nearby to have a flock of pigeons suddenly flying in the face

You see my son is the type of child that picks up snails and slugs off the pathway so that they don't get trampled, he wants a woodlouse as a pet, he helps me catch spiders and release them into the garden etc. He's kind and gentle to even the smallest greenfly but I have never really worried about him chasing after a pigeon. Interesting.

Are there any exceptions to this rule of no chasing? I need to know because obviously my child will be viewed as a sadistic, potential murderer by a lot of people on here if they saw him ambling after a pigeon. Is it only the running into a settled flock that the local "character" is feeding in the park that constitutes mental cruelty? What about the dopey pigeon that decides to peck around the slide at the local swingpark? Surely if he was straying onto a child's territory he can't be that scared of them and as someone else pointed out, there's no way you can catch them - if I thought there was a chance of that then obviously I'd stop them doing it.

Are some of the people that don't let their children chase pigeons the type of people who take nuts into the park to feed the squirrels? Now they really irk me!!

The OP was about letting her ds chase flocks of pigeons for his own amusement. Not seeing off the odd one or two which might be pecking around a park bench while you're eating your sandwich.

There's quite a difference.

I once got told to "chill out and relax its just boys having fun" when I told DS1 and DN1 to stop chasing pidgeons. They were 5 and 3 at the time. I asked the woman if she would like someone bigger chasing her? she didn't answer oddly enough.

Crone why have stopped being a lady?

Free, i was on a late night thread last night and was trying out halloween names.

Believe it or not is entirely possible to let your child chase pigeons and also have respect for animals.
They love animals!
I am so glad I started this thread, it's a joy!

Oooh, it's still going... brilliant

HK- the sheepdog was brought up as an example when another poster explained that she ate only free range meat which had had a happy life. I asked if she included lamb/mutton/wool(?) being chased by sheepdogs- the reasoning being that the trauma the sheep suffer is surely on a par with the trauma pigeons experience being chased by toddlers.

So, by your logic, the sheep are not afraid of the dog (I am baffled as to why they run from it, but that's another thread); this is evidenced by the fact that they are happy to stand next to an off-duty sheepdog.

Pigeons are happy to stand next to an off-duty toddler (one that isn't running at them). Ergo, they are no more traumatised by toddlers chasing them than 'free range' sheep are by being herded.

I just think you relinquish a little of the moral highground on the pigeon chasing issue if you eat meat. Especially pigeons. Or ducks.

I eat meat, so my concerns for the welfare of pigeons are, at best, wavering.

Carry each argument to its logical conclusion and you have a ridiculous outcome; one side never harming a living creature, avoiding grassy areas for fear of stepping on one, and the other side becoming a cat torturing- toddler eating group of dead-eyed zombies, drop kicking any goose in their wake.

Personally, I look forward to this.

Thanks mrsruffallo

I think some people are taking this a little too seriously!!

I think most of us are agreed that pigeons are unlikely to be traumatised by a toddler chasing them.

On the other hand, I was seriously pissed off when some kid ran into a flock of pigeons in our local park the other week, causing them to go flapping off, upsetting other children nearby. Of course, the kid's mum just looked on indulgently as if he'd done something terribly clever.

On the contrary, violethill... this is a very serious issue!!!

In all honesty, some posters do believe that pigeons are traumatised by being chased- read back through the brilliant, brilliant thread.

I guess there are some strange people about!

People who think pigeons have sufficiently developed nervous systems to feel severely traumatised by being chased by a toddler. That's a pretty strange thing to think.

And people whose brains are unsufficiently developed that they think it's fun or clever to encourage their kids to run into flocks of mangy disease carrying vermin so that they take off, flapping and shitting in other people's faces. That's an equally strange point of view.

I only let DS's chase the ones in the tree near our house when they are on the ground as they poo loads all over my car and it's hideaous, so I have reasonable grounds!!

Otherwise I do think it is a bit mean to do it for fun!

YABU, I hate seeing kids scaring pigeons and also as I told ds last week standing on snails. I think we should teach our children basic respect for all living creatures. I have seen children in my street chasing my cat who comes in scared and another bugbear of mine (i know i'm moaning now) is when they pull branches off trees,pull flowers out etc. I suppose its more about a general respect for living things.

I am loving the idea of an "off duty toddler."

I wish the ELC would start selling clocking-in machines, and when DS2 starts acting up I can say "No darling, you're off duty now."

At what point will the message get through to the 'my kids do what they want brigade' that the issue is not with traumatising bloody pigeons ? It's about respecting LIVE creatures. Where do you draw the line ? But I suspect that if after 200 odd posts, those of you who have the previously mentioned under developed brains and still can't comprehend what teaching children respect for animals is about, there really isn't any point in continuing the thread. And to whoever was spouting the bollocks about sheepdogs 'ruling by fear' do a little research on natural herding and grouping instincts in animals. You might actually learn something. Now scuse me whilst I go and watch the kids pull wings off bumble bees and stamp on the cat. Only a dumb animal innit ? And in the meantime, I must drag the sheepdog out of the pen where he is currently curled up asleep with a bunch of petrified sheep

Agree with sassybeast.

I don't like them picking flowers or damaging trees either, - it's damaging something beautiful, and they should respect their environment.

But if the pigeons aren't scared, how is a toddler running at them being disrespectful? Any more so than the jogger running towards them that I mentioned back in 1902 when this thread was young?

In answer to where do you draw the line, I guess I'd draw it where it seemed like the living creature in question was actually bothered (or physically damaged in any way even if not bothered). As none of us is a pigeon psychologist, surely that's all we can do?

Actually, you know what ... I don't care any more. But when my DS tries to chase his first pigeon, I will think back to this thread and probably feel conflicted about what to do

Sassybeast.- It was me who was "spouting the bollocks about sheepdogs ruling by fear."

I have yet to be convinced that the sheep move away from the dog out of anything but fear. This fits in with the natural herding instincts you speak of. But, if you insist, they move away for a totally different reason, nothing to do with the sheepdog resembling their natural predator or anything. Fine.

I am definitely learning something, don't worry about that

Plus, OP wanted to know if chasing pigeons was considered cruel or not. Hence the discussion about traumatised pigeons. It's hilarious, but you can see how it came about.

The point is, everyone draws the line somewhere, just at different points. For me, chasing pigeons is on a par with a sheepdog chasing sheep. For you, it's on a par with pulling the wings off insects and stamping on cats.

The point is that whether or not the pigeon is traumatised, the child is using a living creature as a plaything, and is using a position of strength to tease the weaker creature. Which is not compatible with teaching a child to respect all living things.

I am going to go and start a thread about geese being right bastards

Show me a toddler who could take on a flock of geese and that is one hard toddler

All you have to do is substitute "ducks" for "pigeons". I don't think anyone would be happy with their toddler chasing ducks. That's because ducks are cute and pigeons aren't. Not becuause ducks have bigger brains. As usual cure animals have more rights than plain ones!

And anyway it's not about pigeons rights. it's abotu teaching our children that they should care for and respect other animals, not chase them for fun.

But you can eat ducks and it's ok?????

Not the most respectful thing you can do to a duck IMO...

There are circs where it would not be right/legal to chase ducks as I listed earlier. Agree that pigeon chasers should also not have any problems chasing ducks seagulls or any other sort of bird.

Maybe no-one has responded to that from the pro-chasing camp as they are all comfortable with chasing ducks?

At what point will the message get through to the Pigeons have feelings brigade that chasing a pigeon does not mean you're "disrespecting it" (note to self: I cannot believe I'm debating dissin' pigeons. Must. Get. Grip)

A line can be drawn wherever you care to do so. It's not difficult. I do not equate chasing pigeons with stamping on cats. In the same way I don't equate walking over grass with trampling on flowers.