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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

T o let my son chase pigeons

376 replies

mrsruffallo · 02/10/2009 14:19

DS loves chasing flocks of pigeons. Every time we go to the park he and his friends scream with delight as they fly away.
Woman in the park today got very angry and told me that 'pigeons have feelings too' and that IT WAS CRUEL.
Funnily enough there was something along similar lines on CBeebies the other day.
AIBU to think it's just a bit of fun?

OP posts:
pranma · 02/10/2009 21:35

They fly away because they are scared-it is a defence mechanism.I wouldnt scold a child for doing it once but I would explain that it isnt kind to frighten animals and birds and to try not to do it on purpose.
sanctimoniousoldpranma

HKT · 02/10/2009 21:35

Sheepdogs don't chase the sheep willy nilly, they obey their masters and control and guide the flock. Having worked with sheepdogs, I can quite honestly say that sheep aren't scared of them - if the dog is around, but not on duty, the sheep don't bat an eyelid, if they ruled by fear, this wouldn't be the case, they would go berserk every time they saw the dog.

pranma · 02/10/2009 21:36

Oh Lily I posted before I saw yours and you have said it perfectly.

Original poster
mrsruffallo · 02/10/2009 21:44

LilyBolero and Squirrel have really made me laugh on this thread
And Mrs A of course
Thanks for the entertainment and opinions

OP posts:
cantpooinpeace · 02/10/2009 21:44

Who can believe that a 'kids chasing pigeons' post could get so dark and deep

lol at drawing up contract with sheep

that sassy is so narrow minded that she thinks any child allowed to chase a pigeon is a brat (she clearly has one of those perfect kids - retch I'd rather have a pigeon than one of those)

BuckBuckMcFate · 02/10/2009 21:52

Chasing pigeons is wrong

And my mum told me that so I know it's true.

(Not the most eloquent of arguments but I think you all know really that chasing pigeons is WRONG!!!)

LilyBolero · 02/10/2009 22:06

not sure if that's a good or a bad thing mrsruffallo!

puddinghead · 02/10/2009 22:06

Surely it's not about being deliberately cruel but more about toddlers' natural curiosity and excitement? But reason I wouldn't be too keen on ds's chasing through a flock of pigeons (not that we ever come across 'flocks' of the things) would be because they'd likely catch something unsavoury from the manky critturs.

ineedalifelaundry · 02/10/2009 22:40

I agree with what so many have already said, that it's not about the pigeons' levels of distress at being chased- it's ALL about teaching respect for all livIng creatures to our dc. I hate seeing kids chase pigeons. I certainly won't be allowing my dd to do it.

maryz · 02/10/2009 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tearinghairout · 02/10/2009 22:47

YABU. Sorry, I hate to see children chasing pigeons. Birds DO get traumatised, it said so on telly. So it must be true

But, seriously, I hate it and have told children off for doing it. So there!

glasjam · 03/10/2009 00:07

I think it all comes down to whether you think pigeons are capable of being terrorised.

Your average inner-city pigeon seems a hardy beast (fowl?). It lives amongst us humans, feeding off our scraps and chancing its arm in a way that other birds don't (apart from seagulls). So when I am sitting at a picnic table and the buggers start accumulating at my feet, I shoo them away because I don't wish to share my picnic. My child sees this and thinks it's fair game to also shoo pigeons.

Imagine what it is like to be a child and see something that large and feathery that seems to want to come amongst them and doesn't fly away until you come right up close. Surely the pigeon must have adapted to be less scareable and fragile than a poor sparrow who would die of fright. Aren't they tough old birds? Can someone really point me in the direction of some research that proves that these birds are being traumatised by a 3 year old running towards them, open-armed and full of glee?

Having said all that, I do try and tell my children "ah leave poor pigeon alone, how would you like being chased like that?" they usually look at me with a look that says "I'd bloody love it!!"

TigerDrivesAgain · 03/10/2009 00:15

Crikey, what a long thread!

I don't like to see children or anyone else for that matter teasing any animal, and even though I loathe the flying rats, that include the Pgeons. It isnt fun, it's just nasty teasing, why pretend otherwise. I do dislike their horrid scaly legs though, wouldn't want one for a pet.

valhala · 03/10/2009 01:06

Funny the conversation should turn to the nature of pigeons, how they react to humans and pigeons as pets as we have one at present.

No, I'm not winding you all up!

Tweety Pie, as he is known, fell out of a tree with his nest at about 14 days old. Pigeon mums don't recognise their own when this happens and merely think, "Oh look, there's some baby on the path beside a load of passing humans! Oh well....", so you can't just leave it for Mum to return to.

So, Tweety moved in and has been hand fed for the past couple of weeks. He was about 14 days old when found and will be able to fly off when he is about 35 days old.

Only...

Tweety thinks that DD2, who found him and has taken over the job of rearing him, is his mother! He cries out only for her, comes out of his cage and seeks her out and now he is able to fly immediately flaps off to sit on her shoulder or head. He flew as far as a roof about 6 doors away yesterday - DD2 was distraught but I told her to call him and sure enough he flew back (onto her shoulder). Problem is he's so damn tame that he then sat on the shed roof and nearly got eaten by one of our cats, who wander aimlessly around his cage ignoring him when he is in it within the house. Best he goes to a sanctuary soon, not back into the wild methinks!

So, this being my first up close and personal experience with a pigeon makes me disagree with the idea that I wouldn't like one as a pet and certainly reinforces my view that they shouldn't be chased and clearly can both fear us if we do and trust us if we are kind.

My DC were never allowed to chase birds or any animal and I am glad to say that this respect for them has paid off. Not only do they rescue various waifs and strays (last tmonth it was a baby hedgehog!), but also they join me in helping at a dog rescue. IME the message that to chase animals is cruel and shows no respect for them has paid off.

And if anyone knows a wildlife sanctuary with room for a very friendly pigeon, do let me know!

SardineQueen · 03/10/2009 01:11

This thread is fantastic

Sheepdogs are able to shepherd sheep around by.... well it's yet to be explained. I thought that sheep had been bred by humans to be a bit dim, and that they recognised the "wolf" in sheepdogs which is why they don't sit around munching grass when the sheepdog comes at them. Certainly that's how sheepdog normally operate. Give em a scare so they move, that's enough, sit down etc. Is it all sticker charts now?

And yes whoever mentioned geese earlier - anyone with a child who loves a good go at a bird and is pretty fearless should go and have a try at some geese. They are right bastards and deserve everything they get.

incidentally, I gave a very excellent response to the duck chasing question, which seems to have been ignored

Jamieandhismagictorch · 03/10/2009 06:50

valhala great story. I also used to try and rescue baby birds when I was a child. Always unsuccessfully. I remember trying to feed them with bits of worm on a matchstick ...

Incidentally, I always assumed that a mother bird wouldn't be able to do much to help a baby that has fallen out of the nest - they don't pick up a baby in their beaks do they ? (anyone out there know ?)

Sardine I think you are right about sheepdogs. I don't have a problem with that inconsistency in reasoning. For the reasons above, I do have a problem with allowing/encouraging my children to frighten anything themselves.

Geese are not "right bastards". They are animals following an instinctive pattern of behaviour. Now who is anthropomorphising ?

Will go back and check on your duck answer

Jamieandhismagictorch · 03/10/2009 07:00

Just thought I'd share my story of the dreadful namby-pamby allotment-loving child I have produced with my funny ideas about respect for living things ...

DS1 (8) told me he'd refused to do an experiment at school to see if a plant could grow if you pulled its leaves off. He even tried to start a rebellion.

My initial reaction was to say ... respect for authority of the teacher ..... and we talked about the point of science and doing experiments to test theories, and not trying to start classroom uprisings

He was adamant that it would "hurt the plant", and make the plant sad - which I did disagree with (plants not being sentient ). In the end we agreed to disagree.

Goblinchild · 03/10/2009 07:00

Why not organise a trip to Brighton seafront?
Bring the sandwiches, crisps et all.
Then give your children the chance to be mobbed by seagulls.
Mine chased pigeons when they were toddlers, I used to think it was preventing future tragedies by honing the survival instincts of the birds.
And yes, I am a veggie, allotment-owning environmental activist-type.

Divvy · 03/10/2009 07:07

YANBU....but its cruel for your son as he is NEVER going to catch one!

cantpooinpeace · 03/10/2009 07:26

Oh Jamie your son's sooo sweet if only my brat was more like that - clearly it's the chasing pigeons that's the deep rooted cause

PuppyMonkey · 03/10/2009 07:39

Rats with wings, pigeons. But I do admire their homing facility.

DP once kicked a goose that was terrorising us as we walked by. The farmer was right there watching us and he shouted over: "Give it a good hardf kick", so DP did.

This thread is f-ing brilliant btw.

sarah293 · 03/10/2009 07:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

seeker · 03/10/2009 07:58

"I think it all comes down to whether you think pigeons are capable of being terrorised."

No it doesn't. I am absoulutely sure that pigeons, particularly city pigeons are not even remotely bothered by being chased by toddlers.

What it is about is teaching our children basic values of kindness, compassion and thoughtfulness. Letting them think that chasing living things that aren't in on the game is OK is such a bad idea.

Call me a woolly minded liberal hippy if you must, - but on this one I'm right!

tinkerbellesmuse · 03/10/2009 08:06

Jeez I am also inhabiting the parallel universe - can't believe people worry about this stuff. The pigeons will get over it, maybe the PPP sould too!

And the slippery slope arguments are rubbish - show me a toddler who can't tell the difference between a pigeon and a cat/sheep/whatever and I'll show you a parent who sould spend less time worrying about the rights of pigeons.

Sarey1 · 03/10/2009 08:07

I hate pigeons, they are disgusting manky germ bags. But I won't let my DS chase them because he will then chase every cat, dog, chicken, duck, lamb, small child etc that he sees, cos he is too young to understand my inconsistent parenting! It's not about respecting pigeons' feelings (ha!), it's about trying to teach him stuff early on that makes sense and then trying to stick with it.