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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To remove my children from childminder because she reported a parent to ofsted?

138 replies

threelittlespeckledfrogs · 01/10/2009 16:54

I am a regular but have changed my name as I am aware I may be flamed for this.

I have three children, a five year old and two year old twins. They go to the childminder's at seven and she takes my daughter to school and picks her up and looks after the twins all day. I had always thought she was a lovely woman and my kids seem to like her.

In light of the recent publicity over the law on looking after friends' children, we were having a conversation about it. I said that I thought the law was outragious and couldn't see what difference it made. I also said that I couldn't understand what kind of busybody would shop someone to ofsted for looking after a friend's child. She then said that she had shopped someone for doing exactly that.

I asked her why and she said that it was unfair that people should be looking after children without having registered.

What made me more than anything though was that she said that the woman she shopped had to stop caring for her friend's child, and that she then took on this child as a mindee.

So not only has she forced a mother to pay for childcare when she was previously able to have her child looked after by a friend, but she has also gained financially from it as she is minding the child.

I am really angry about this and I have seen her in a totally different light now.

I don't want someone like this looking after my children, so I have given notice and the twins will be going to a nursery and my daughter will have to go to before and after school club.

But I am tempted to tell all the parents of her mindees what she is like.

IBU?

OP posts:
PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:13

jax, yes, that is illegal not only because your friend is therefore working as a paid unregistered childminder, but also you need to seriously consider her car insurance - she is using her car for "hire and reward" purposes and therefore needs to declare this on her insurance. heaven forbid that in the event of an accident and your Dd bing injured, her insurance would not pay up

i drive DD and her friends to musical group fixtures at other schools and as a volunteer driver I still have to sign a form to say that I am covered by my insurance (which I AM because I am NOT an employee of the school, and get NO travel/fuel expenses reimbursed by the other parents)

PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:16

mrsjammi what you describe, with NO money changing hands for the lifts/babysitting SHOULD be OK IMO, but is not, because the "reward" is in the exchange of favours. Mad. This is why the govt are reviewing the Ofsted regs. following the case of the 2 policewomen

PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:19

jax - many childminders do what you describe, school run plus maybe an hour after school. this is why the woman in the OPs case reported it, she was afraid of losing business. Not nice IMO

mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:22

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MillyMollyMoo · 01/10/2009 23:24

If I hear or see bad practise in any profession I would tell everyone I know, too many people didn't tell me when my child was mistreated by a carer until afterwards when they all felt more than happy to share the gorey details.

Dominique07 · 01/10/2009 23:25

YANBU - Firstly if it makes you uncomfortable that she would do this then you wouldn't be able to fully trust her,

secondly, this woman she shopped is not some big money-making rival business, its friends helping out friends - we all know someone who our children love and trust, and if they offered to take care of our kids while we went back to work (for maybe 6 months before they start at the local pre-school nursery) then that would be the best offer to send your kids somewhere where they're already happy and what's the harm? In all likely hood the friends probably just give enough money to cover food and trips.... this law, and this woman are out of order. I thought the gvnt was trying to encourage ppl back to work!!!

PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:26

mrsJammi - that depends on what your car insurance says, ring them and ask them. I HAD to do that to be a volunteer driver for school clubs (as well as having CRB) I was told by insurers that taking DDs friends unpaid was fine because it was covered by social domestic and leisure use. If you are having expenses paid, you are operating a transport business of sorts. Same with car shares to work etc, the driver should check with their insurers. Giving a lift for free is very different to giving it for some petrol money back.

I know, crazy, I'm not saying it is right or sensible, but these things do have to be regulated

PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:29

oh and not forgetting that insurers love having a reason to get out of paying up, which no one wants to find out when they are expecting a pay out!!

mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:30

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mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:32

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jaxxyj · 01/10/2009 23:33

But Im not actually paying the other parent for childcare, I am giving her a contribution to petrol, the only time they are in their house is if the other parent is late for 5 minutes or so. Seems mad to me, does it make a difference that my DC are twelve and could get the bus on their own-it would take longer but possible. I thought we had a mutually benificial agreement, maybe I ought to rethink?

mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:35

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PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:44

jax "I thought we had a mutually benificial agreement"

that is precisely the problem area, you both are benefitting, so that is like being paid for doing a job even if no money changes hands, the "pay" is the returned favour. Mad.

the car insurance thing is really important though, please check it out.

you "pay" £10 a week, my friend who is a CM charges £2 a day to do school run - exactly the same!

jaxxyj · 01/10/2009 23:45

YANBU btw i stopped using a childminder when the DC were first at school because she kept telling me how good my ids were in comparison to her other mindees and going into details - i thought it was inappropriate and she had loads of qualifications and experience. (mentored newer CMs)I thought it was totally unproffessional and what she might say to the other parents about me!

PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:46

CMs obviously are insured for business use of their car

mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:48

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mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:48

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PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:50

kent - £2 a day JUST FOR SCHOOL RUN as an extra on top of hours they do at her house

so an hour before and after school she charges at 2x hourly rate PLUS £2 school run charge, for petrol

mrsjammi · 01/10/2009 23:52

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PeedOffWithNits · 01/10/2009 23:55

in jax's mind, and many other peoples situations, she is paying for petrol, but in legal terms the friend who is driving IS minding her kids in that time, so is childminding unregistered (all be it very cheaply if 40 mins a day = £10 a week!!)

not being rude if i do not reply further - must go to bed!

CommonNortherner · 02/10/2009 07:01

So the general gist is that people should trust people only if they have government approval, rather than using their own experience and common sense?!? Are we a nation of children who need mummy and daddy government to tell us who is safe or not?

RustyBear · 02/10/2009 08:01

I'm pretty sure the rules only apply if the children are with the other person for more than 2 hours a day, so if the school run is 2 x 40 minutes it should be OK. I agree that the car insurance position needs to be checked though.

BalloonSlayer · 02/10/2009 08:15

Actually nowhere does the OP say that the other unregistered CM was doing it for free.

She said "but she [the reg CM] has also gained financially from it as she is minding the child."

Which means nothing about the original childminder.

People have assumed that because one poster said the original childminder wasn't being paid, that the OP said she wasn't being paid.

The OP has not been back to answer the question.

Which suggests either that she does not know the answer, in which case she proobably does not know enough about the situation to make judgements about her childminder's behaviour.

Or . . . the same old story,

SoupDragon · 02/10/2009 08:18

You do not have the full story.

If the "friend" was being paid for looking after the child she should have been registered. why should the registered minders jump through all the necessary hoops when others don't bother?

mackerel · 02/10/2009 08:25

Soupdragon. I keep saying this but I think that if you have an informal arrangement bet. two friends helping each other out then it is different to someone who is attempting to run a business and tout for business. If i were to return to work right now I would ask my close friend who is a SAHM with schoolage kids to care for DS. She has a good bond and I like her, know her well and trust her. I know that she hasn't had safeguarding training, formal first aid training etc. and I make a decision that i would still prefer her to look after my DS despite that. I am aware of the lack of insurance etc. I still think that for me DS and me it'as the best for our DS. And I would want to pay her for her time and for providng love, care and a safe shelter for my child.I really don't see a problem with that. If my friend then went on to want to expand her business and advertise for mindees then of course she would need to be registered.