to think that after 5 years you would learn at least some English??

[macdoodle]

Now I am pretty sure that IANBU but am prepared to be told otherwise!
This is NOT a rascist/immigrant thread I am genuinely curious and have been mulling it over for a few days now!

I am doing a children and mothers group counselling thing with DD1, for children from/in domestic abuse situations!
There are 8 of us (mums/grans and children)!
It is intense but very very good and am finding it incredibly helpful as are the other mums (the children have a group seperate to us at the same time covering the same things in different ways)

One of the mums is absolutely lovely, well spoken, participates, talkative, kind, interested in others, her DD is lovely as well!
She has a horrendous story, she fled from an abusive (arranged) marriage in Pakistan, the abuse sounds horrific both mental and physical, and I am sure is just the tip of the iceberg.
She has no family whatsoever here and doesnt seem like a lot of support.

I like her a lot, and DD1 likes her DD and has asked if we could invite them over for tea on day!

She fled Pakistan 5 years ago when her DD was 3, she is now 8 like my DD1.
Her DD speaks immaculate English and obviously goes to a English speaking school, though I know it is in an area with an high ethnic population.

However, the mum speaks no English watsoever, and I mean none, she appears to understand a little but is yet to utter a single English word. She has a translater provided with her (who actually is also lovely). But boy it makes conversations difficuly/awkward/stilted, I never really know how much she understands me, how much to say and then wait for the translator, though she (the translator) is pretty good at telling me to hold on so she can translate!
Its awkward, sometimes I feel like I am having a conversation with the translator, sometimes I feel rude as clearly the 2 of us are empathising!

I just dont understand it, she has been here 5 years, it must make her life so difficult not to speak the language, she sems bright and eloquent, I cant imagine she would find it massively difficult to learn, why wouldnt you??

Stitch, did you not insist that peopel speak Urdu to them?

My sister are married to foreigners, one to an Asian, whose paretns were initially not happy he was marrying a white girl.
Guess what language they now try and speak with my sister's children all the time, regardless of them now living in their father's country?

My sister (the preceived Imperialist interloper) is the one who has made huge efforts while living in UK for years to ensure her children are bi-lingual and bi-cultural.

Come off it moondog, the MIL talking Ghanaian across Aoife's hospital bed is really rude. One thing at a large family party, although you'd think they'd make some effort to include Aoife, another if they are in her home or by her hospital bed.

moonie, my insistence fell on deaf ears. they just wanted to either practice their own english, or mke sure the kids understood what they were saying.

How frustrating Stitch!
My dh works in Bangladesh and it is sad to be surrounded by kids with their families when going out their who obviously don't speak Bangla.

Edam, the language used is emotive 'speaking across' the bed.
I find it is generally Anglophone monoglots who have this low level paranoia.

Out there (on the plane) of course!

Nothing paranoid about thinking it is bad manners to talk across a patient's bed. Extremely rude whatever the language, even worse if you are deliberately excluding them by speaking in a tongue they don't understand.

'Across the bed' is not particularly emotive, merely describes the situation.

Why do you need to patronise me, btw?

Why do you feel need to be patronised btw?
Do you enjoy playing the victim?
I have no recollection of patronising you, knowingly or unknowingly.

If you marry into a family where peopel speak another language, you have two choices.

1.Take an interest in that language and culture and invest your energies into bringing up children woh are comfortabel in two cultures

2.Sulk and complain because people who have lived, loved, reared children and worked through the medium of language don't suddenly change the habits of a lifetime to accommodate you.

"I find it is generally Anglophone monoglots who have this low level paranoia."

In what way is that not patronising?

It's true.
Whether or not you find it patronising is another issue. Maybe you find it so because it applies to you?

You are being deliberately disingenuous.

'How dare you disagree with me, you must be mentally ill' is not really a very grown-up style of argument, is it?

God, you are barking tonight Edam.

Nope, just not in the mood to put up with being insulted for daring to disagree with you.

Now I've got 'barking' to add to 'paranoid' and 'needing to play the victim'. Do you think name-calling helps to bolster your case?

Edam's not paranoid.

)And I say that as one who's disagreed with her a few times.)

Ha! The timing of my message makes it seem that I don't think she's paranoid but she might be everything else.

Quite the opposite of what I meant, Edam!

Hi Mac

Could you perhaps ask the translator discreetly how best to go about it? Seems a shame for daughter to miss out.

And if people came to my house or my hospital bed and spoke in a language I couldnt understand I would be FURIOUS. Its bloody rude - not low level paranoic - just slightly better mannered.

I have lived in 5 countries (other than the UK) and have always made an effort to learn the language. I've learned least in the country I'm in at the moment because of other pressures - in my case, working too hard in my English speaking job followed by having a baby.

Until recently, I was inclined to be very snobby about people who "didn't bother" to learn the local language when living overseas. I now understand a lot better why sometimes it doesn't happen. I mean - I am a very highly educated person who apparently has a particularly strong interest in learning languages, and I am far from fluent in the local language here - and why?? Because I have had a hard time here - I worked far too hard when I first got here, then I had a miscarriage, then I had a baby (who was and is delightful, but keeps me busy). These reasons are peanuts and small fry when compared to what your friend has been going through.

So, you're not being unreasonable, and actually you sound lovely, but I do think it's wrong to think she "should" have learned English.

And - moondog - I think you are being a bit harsh on Aiofe and Edam. The hospital bed situation sounded very rude. How would you respond if it were the other way round - an English family refusing to include their daughter in law (who had just given birth) in conversation - even though they all COULD speak her language well - just because "we're British and we speak English in our family" - wouldn't that seem a bit off to you?

Sounds like compulsory English lessons (or Ghanaian lessons if you move to Ghana) would actually help some of these people.

As someone pointed out waaaaay back down the thread re. their grandma.