to think Labour are wrong to scrap the work childcare voucher scheme?

[neenz]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8279701.stm

Apparently Gordon Brown is going to announce that Labour will scrap the work childcare voucher scheme ("because it benefits too many rich people") and use the money to provide 10 hours free childcare a week to 2yos from low to middle income families.

I consider myself a socialist and I think free childcare is a great idea but if it means 2hr sessions five days a week (ie the kind of sessions that do not allow the parent to go out and work during that time) then I am a bit annoyed because the childcare voucher scheme is the ONLY benefit I get (plus child benefit of course).

I wouldn't mind as much if they were going to pay for a proper chunk of childcare for each poor 2yo to really help the mum/dad get back to work but these short sessions (the type 3yos get now) are pretty useless unless you don't work! And if you do work and want your child to go you have to pay a CM to pick the child up and sometimes to pay the CM anyway for the hours your child is at the playgroup . AIB totally U?

spend spend spend? on 20k tax credits and the like?

it does amuse me that no one in this country takes any responsibility at all for the vulgar spending binge that has gone on since maggie unleashed full the markets on full throtle.

Exactly it's cock up after cock up, the only person responsible for the mistake on my tax credits form was the tax credits office. I didn't need the money, bought shares with them have doubled the money and offered them a cheque for the £20k straight back but no it needs to be deducted from my claim and can't be more than 25% of the weekly figure, it's pathetic.
Nobody is better off, I'm amused by it all but it's far from funny.

what you didnt notice the money going in month after month? yeah right.

Of course I noticed it but if you're told the claim is right then you think thank you very much don't you ? I did my bit filled out the forms and sent them back, 3 times.
There was then more money wasted "investigating the matter" when it was blanently clear what had gone wrong in the first phone call.
The guy I spoke to at the recovery department made it very clear my debt was actually not the biggest they had and at least they had some chance of recovery.

It is all wrong of course it is but the responsibility lies with HMRC who are run by the government.

My goodness, they overpaid you by £20k (is that correct!!)and you knew they were overpaying you but you thought that is was yours to keep until they contacted you....

i'm so disgusted i dont think i canlook at this thread anymore...

MMM is getting a bit of a hard time here and it's unjustified. When the tax credits office overpays you, you can tell them over and over that they are overpaying you but they don't take any notice. Then eventually they realise and then they claw it back.

MMM has done the right thing - invest the money, and offered to pay it all right back. They have turned her down and now they are getting it back week by week - can't see how she could have done any more really.

the point is she knowingly kept it and did nothing about it through three rounds of forms so presumably three years worth. so she didnt tell them.

Well HerHonesty, the way I read it was that she did tell them but they just ignored her. She will be able to put us straight I am sure

babybarrister, I completely agree with you, that the voucher system (or whatever help) should be universal, not just limited to thos whose employers opt in.

My DH is self-employed too so we lose out in that way also.

Lets get this straight everytime I have filled oput a tax credit renewal notice I have made it perfectly clear that I am married and everytime they have continues to pay me around the same amount, about £125 per week.
Why would I question that ? I have stated all the facts and that is what they decided to pay me. I actually have a very good case for keeping the money on the basis that I didn't make the error they did, but the right thing to do is pay it back.

Now the point I was making was that there are millions of overpayments because the system has been made so complex and people are so dependant on TC they simply cannot be reduced or scrapped. We will have inflation instead no doubt that was the plan all along.

I had DD when the Tories were in and there was fuck all help with any childcare costs. Zero. Labour have transformed childcare - of course there are balls ups, they seem to be good at them - but things really are so much better now. I am really helped by Tax Credits, it's made such a difference. Anyone on an income below about £26k but working 16 hours per week can claim money back from childcare costs via tax credits if they lose their vouchers. I don't know why they ever decided to pay tax credits or give vouchers to the well-off who can pay for childcare themselves. Should I duck now?

DonkeyDeby when the tories were in houses cost 3 times one persons income, my friend who worked part time and was a single mother owned her own house and ran a car. Now she's a married mother of two they cannot afford for her not to work even with tax credits as they both need her income for the mortgage. It's as long as it's short.

MMM perhaps if you care to look back over history you will note that it was the tories that reformed the borrowing market and also allowed council tenants the right to buy. the fact that house prices overheated is a function of supply, demand, and the availablity of credit, ala thatcher.

so you are stupid enough not to figure out that you were being overpaid from day one but not stupid enough to take the money and invest it in shares? pull the other one.

Why would you think you were beiung overpaid if an award notice addressed to you arrives on your doorstep, at the end of the day the only person I have to justify anything to is myself but seeing as it winds you up so much I've actually decided to keep the money, stuff them it's their mistake why should my plans go tits up

I don't want to come over all Sherlock Holmes, MMM, but didn't you say a few days ago that you paid for private school with your TCs? i mean, I can see how that could count as an 'investment', but surely it won't pay off for quite a few years yet?

Well putting the overpayments issue aside... it is a good point about many familes these days needing two incomes just to have a very basic standard of living. The housing boom was fuelled by low interest rates which Labour encouraged because it meant people felt better off and spent more, helping the economy grow.

But now houses are so expensive that a single income can rarely pay for a family home. That can't be right and is forcing most mothers back to work (which Labour seem to quite like as well - cos it keeps the economy growing)

The Tories would argue that more people should be able to keep more of the money they earn in the first place, rather than paying tax and then claiming money back through tax credits. The tax credits are not really a benefit, they are just giving you back money you have already earned.

I am no Tory fan btw

Neenz, you're absolutely right. It's a complete nonsense to promote the tax credits as a benefit, and a bureacratic nightmare. If they simply raised the tax threshold as they've been advised to for years then there wouldn't be the need for people to claim TC's - but of course, there would then be a lot of people out of a job if they did away with the departments which process them...

On the issue of tax credits being benefits or tax relief, I understand that it is very possible to receive significantly more in tax credits than you are liable to pay in tax.

A mnetter (on a previous thread) did very detailed calculations by way of examples to illustrate this.

On this basis, I would say they are benefits, rather than tax relief in the strict sense. This is because tax relief (by its definition) can never exceed the amount of tax you are liable for.

You are right blueshoes - if you get more back than you pay in then it is a benefit.

Which begs the question - why pay anything in at all? Just keep what you earn and get it topped up by the state if necessary.

Paolosgirl is right though about the number of people put out of work if the TC system was ditched.

It is an administrative nightmare.