to think Labour are wrong to scrap the work childcare voucher scheme?

[neenz]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8279701.stm

Apparently Gordon Brown is going to announce that Labour will scrap the work childcare voucher scheme ("because it benefits too many rich people") and use the money to provide 10 hours free childcare a week to 2yos from low to middle income families.

I consider myself a socialist and I think free childcare is a great idea but if it means 2hr sessions five days a week (ie the kind of sessions that do not allow the parent to go out and work during that time) then I am a bit annoyed because the childcare voucher scheme is the ONLY benefit I get (plus child benefit of course).

I wouldn't mind as much if they were going to pay for a proper chunk of childcare for each poor 2yo to really help the mum/dad get back to work but these short sessions (the type 3yos get now) are pretty useless unless you don't work! And if you do work and want your child to go you have to pay a CM to pick the child up and sometimes to pay the CM anyway for the hours your child is at the playgroup . AIB totally U?

yup. its got ridiculous. thats sort of what wants me to have a piece of the action IYKWIM....

Where does all this the tories will scrap tax credits come from, I have never heard anything mentioned at all along those lines, seriously they simply cannot thousands would riot in the streets. They may change it's administration because it is a disaster, I owe them £20,000 and they will be getting it back £20 a week over the next 20 years interest free I know at least 2 other people that owe £6,000.
We need to get rid of this benefit culture for sure but scrapping this scheme is beyond ridiculous. Unless it's replaced with something more effective.

I agree that higher earners should give up more in a recession (well, they always should), but scrapping the voucher system will only redirect the cash to childcare which is useless or certainly not a necessity.

Yes, Labour will not get in at the next election but it is because of stupid policies like these (and other things) that they won't get in. That's what makes me so angry. The Tories will come in scrap all these things anyway .

I also don't like the 'we'd be better off if we split up' argument because if you split up you'd have to run two homes so you would not in fact be better off. I do think the benefits system needs an overhaul though.

how on earth did you get to a point where you owe them 20k?

btw no one has said they tories would scrap the tax credit, just that if they were to be elected it may be a target.

and erm the only way surely to get rid of a benefits culture would be ..... to stop benefits...

The point is though GB keeps saying he doesn't want to make cuts because that will affect the recession's length but everyone who's loosing £100/200 in childcare vouchers will stop spending on coffee's/days out/boden clothes whatever and that will mean more job loses. The truth is though they will probably cut back on dental care, optician appointments and healthy food too.

The Tories aren't going to admit to scrapping CTC and WTC - that would be suicide.

Totally agree I love the Lib Dems policy of 10% tax, let more people on low incomes keep more of their own money, tax the over £150k income earners - they can afford it! And I say that as my DH heads toward that level of income... I think we should pay more as we certainly would not miss the money that much.

MMM what are you talking about?

They had me down as a single parent for three years and what saved my arse was the fact that I always photocopy the forms before sending them in otherwise i'd be typing this from jail no doubt.

Back to the point, yes tax credits may be a target or it may not be, you do not know that.
Maybe they will revert to type just as Labour always causes this sort of bloody mess as they did in the 70's.

Her honesty - this isn't a benefit, it's tax relief is it not ?

'Nonsense that you would be better off as a single parent. I really hate it when MN drags that old corker out. If its that great then why aren't we all rushing to do it?'

'cause life is more than a financial cost/benefit exercise? Sure, I could be better off financially without DD or DH, but that doesn't mean I would do it. Hell, I would PAY everything I have and everything I will ever get to keep them in my life.

its in the same boat if you ask me. tax credit or tax relief is a benefit contingent on actually earning some money and the amount you earn.

yes we know we dont know what the tories will do, we are debating the worth of the different types of benefits that are available, and the fact that they are all likely to be targets for cuts.

oh and by the way. i dont sit around in coffee shops, leafing my way through boden catalogues, dreaming about my next day out.

I don't really care what you do with your time or indeed money but I wouldn't mind betting if you have a spare £100 a month some part of it is spent keeping somebody else in a job.
It's not the same at on the basis that you don't need to be putting anything into the system to get benefits where as a tax relief you pay first and are rewarded later, entirely different.

'Although actually I think the finances would be ultimately negatively affected too.'

Actually, there has been lots of research done that shows that when a couple, particularly one with children, splits then the woman suffers a great deal more, financially, than the man. Part of that is that women are usually the primary carers, so they are on the hook for living expenses as well as childcare, and their career/lifetime income is harder hit. It's also because in a partnership men tend to shoulder the cost of big, appreciating assets, like the house, and women buy the small, non-appreciating assets, like the duvets and children's clothes/shoes. Ideally splitting assets after a divorce would account for this but it doesn't always work that way.

I'm of the opinion that there should be some kind of help for childcare and I rather like the voucher scheme. But my DD is 9 months old, so her nursery fees are quite large and getting bigger.

TBH, the more I think about it, the more I think it should be based on some kinds of means test, but not a heavy administrative one.

I also think that childcare should be wholly/partly subsidized for certain in-demand, public sectors like nursing and teaching, as an incentive to get people in.

I'm just happy it's not my job to fix everything because I'm afraid my answer would be a tad simplistic

but the principle is the same - to assist those who are in a disadvantegous position.

20k interest free ? god i am in the wrong business.

Indeed am glad I invested it all wisely stupid, stupid labour government

dont worry, the tories will come in and claw it out of you some other way.

I think not voting labour would be just fine .... although half of me is tempted to make the bastards sort their mess out, it's not right that Labour spend spend spend, bankrupt us and then another party has to be the bad guy and sort it all out and then the process starts all over again.