to think Labour are wrong to scrap the work childcare voucher scheme?

[neenz]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8279701.stm

Apparently Gordon Brown is going to announce that Labour will scrap the work childcare voucher scheme ("because it benefits too many rich people") and use the money to provide 10 hours free childcare a week to 2yos from low to middle income families.

I consider myself a socialist and I think free childcare is a great idea but if it means 2hr sessions five days a week (ie the kind of sessions that do not allow the parent to go out and work during that time) then I am a bit annoyed because the childcare voucher scheme is the ONLY benefit I get (plus child benefit of course).

I wouldn't mind as much if they were going to pay for a proper chunk of childcare for each poor 2yo to really help the mum/dad get back to work but these short sessions (the type 3yos get now) are pretty useless unless you don't work! And if you do work and want your child to go you have to pay a CM to pick the child up and sometimes to pay the CM anyway for the hours your child is at the playgroup . AIB totally U?

I am SO FED UP of not having any help whatsoever. The only benefit we get is child benefit and the voucher scheme is the only thing that makes it worth going back to work.

DH and I have a combined income of £33,000. After mortgage, bills, council tax, food, DH's travel (he commutes), and now of course childcare, we're bloody skint - we don't actually have much more left over each month than those on benefits. I feel like a mug for trying to make my own way in the world rather than rely on state support and now it looks like it's going to be even harder.

Thanks a bunch, labour.

Has anyone even thought whether it's a good idea for 2 year olds to be in a pre-school setting (presumably the vouchers will be like the ones for 3 & 4 year olds - redeemable in a nursery or pre-school, but not with a childminder or nanny?)?? Round here most pre-schools won't take them until 2 yrs 9 months in any case, and the Surestart nursery only for the year before school, so where are all these extra places going to come from??

HerHonesty - yes, that's a good point. We are all getting het up about what Labour might be going to axe, but much more likely that the Tories will get in and axe the whole child credits system !

its actually up to 58k or 66 if you have one child under 1.

Riven - we will when I go back to work next month, just waiting on my new contract so I can claim - it'll be minimal though.

Don't get me wrong - we knew this when we decided to start a family - it just makes me sad that even though we are working hard and earning a reasonable wage, it's still such a struggle.

Thatsaid though - my niece has SN and I'm continually impressed by the amount of support my sister gets, so it's swings and roundabouts for our family I guess.

Hang on a sec... this is a proposal for after the next election, which Labour aren't going to win anyway. So, from that point of view, it's a bit of a storm in a teacup.

Also, reading the Mail article carefully, it sounds like the proposal is to abolish higher-rate tax relief on childcare vouchers - this would fit in with their proposal to abolish higher-rate tax relief on pension contributions (I didn't just dream that, did I?).

And has been previously pointed out, if (when) the Tories get in, everyone who's not married and rich will be shafted anyway.
Lib Dems have proposed extension of parental leave to 18 months, then twenty hours free childcare a week thereafter. But who'd vote for them, eh?

Basically, the country's out of money and the next few years are going to be tough, state help with all sorts of things will be rolled back, and taxes will probably go up. Expect to see more of this sort of thing.

''If it makes a really big difference to lower income families who might otherwise be on income support to provide 10 hours free childcare then maybe its worth it''

BUT - the point is, how would it make a difference because it would be impossible to work around 2 hours childcare a day. What job could they possibly do - clean for an hour before running back to do the nursery pick-up? That's not going to pay much.

As others have pointed out, the only people this would benefit are:

• SAHP's who don't need the childcare anyway
• working parents who have family looking after the dc's who can do the 2 hour drop-offs and pick-ups - and frankly, they don't need the childcare either!

The people who need the childcare are working parents who need to put the children in paid-for childcare, and 2 hours a day will help no-one in this category

But it is not just childcare vouchers they are proposing to axe but also universal child benefit. That seems incredibly unfair. I have worked hard all my life and paid taxes towards other people's families and lifestyles knowing that when the time came, i would be entitled to the same tax relief or benefits. now they are to be axed and people who have not worked or paid taxes receive benefits that they have not contributed towards. I am very

Yes but the people who have contributed to the tax coffers should be able to reap the benefits that they have contributed towards. Plus the benefits are for the children. We are not low income but after our mortgage and bills each month are certainly not rich. the childcare vouchers and child benefit make a huge difference to us and to lose it would really hurt. Instead of returning to work part time i would have to return to work full time, find a cheap childminder for my children (and the quality you get is certainly reflected in pay) and never see them. If i stayed off work my husband's sole salary would be spent all on mortgage and bills. We aren't lucky enough to be on a tracker mortgage. We got fixed into a high rate fixed interest just before interest rates fell. We bought at the peak of the market because we had to at that time. We spend over 50% of DH's salary on our mortgage alone, before insurance and bills etc. Believe me, £180 per month is a HUGE difference to us. We can't move because we are stuck in a fixed rate and our house has lost 10% of it's value, so we would lose money, with me not working won't be able to get as big a mortgage and have no deposit to move. I have spent the last 15 years working and paying taxes towards benefits and health systems that should be available to all. Why should people who have not contributed gain and I lose out?

Hmmm appreciate my last statement is over-heated pregnancy hormones. My belief in the tax system has always been that you contrbute towards it and if and when you need it, it is there for you. I think that the very poor and disadvantaged should be helped by it in the hope their circumstances change and they too can contribute in future. Similarly, if my circumstances changed then i could rely on benefits in place to help me. I am about to go on maternity leave with the hope of returning to work part time as not working would be too much financial pressure on DH - but i would have to return full time and go for the cheapest childcare available, and in London that is still not cheap, just to take the strain off DH from paying for everything. The child benefits in place make a huge difference paying for food and nappies for DS and DC2 to come. The childcare vouchers means DS can go to a good nursery where we feel happy with the level of care. We can't rely on friends to look after children now as that is illegal and i don't have family to help me so losing these benefits would affect me greatly. I meant not offence to anyone in a situation where they have not been able to work and they will benefit from having tax credits, child benefit and free childcare. I am just pretty upset that now having DC2 is going to push us over the edge financially when we are already struggling to stay afloat.

stigaloid we're in pretty much the same position. both high earners. large mortgage etc.

Am also in a 5 days a week or nothing situation with work. so our childcare arrangements are probably disproportionately more expensive than most.

I value the childcare vouchers tremendously although TBH their contribution towards the cost of childcare is minimal. I believe with two parents contributing 40% tax (and have been for the last umpteen years and probably/hopefull will do for some time)that asking for more help towards childcare just in the very early years is not unreasonable.

to make things work for us financially I would have to give up my job and find something which afforded me more flexibility. And that is something i think is very wrong. equality... yeah right.

HH - i am not a high tax earner. DH is but i am not. We could not even survive if it was just my salary as our mortgage alone is hundreds of pounds greater than my take home pay (and about to go on mat leave where i will receive only stat pay too). I would be better off splitting from DH and then be able to claim benefits and tax credits, which is ridiculous.

Gah! I hate recessions [cry]

am going to step away from this thread as it is really stressing me out and can't cope with stress and pregnancy hormones combined.

or anniemac we could just lower taxes massively and make the tax free band much larger.

and stop the vast majority of benefits and get rid of all the ridiculous systems that are put in place to test/collect/penalise/clawback overpayments etc etc .
(and btw i am a labour voter...)