To think that if BIL thinks that blood is not thicker than water then we shouldn't bail him out financially

[tointerveneornot]

Namechanged due to paranoia of people who know about this in RL finding out my MN posting name.

Long story short - DH and his brother fell out almost a decade ago. It was over something fairly trivial, a petty squabble over a childhood girlfriend, basically.

BIL told DH then that he was dead to him (!) and they haven't spoken since. Over they years DH and I have made a few efforts to try to reconciliate - sending presents to his DC etc but they have never been acknowledged or reciprocated.

Fast forward to now and DH has a very well paid job, he made a lot of money in bonuses and we invested it well and are therefore mortgage-free and have a considerable amount of money in the bank.

BIL has just been made redundant, he can't pay the mortgage. PIL have suggested we help out BIL financially, so the kids don't lose their home.

As much as I have sympathy for their situation I don't see why DH, having been denied the opportunity of having any kind of relationship with BIL or his kids should have to stump up financially.

Thoughts?

They need to look at the web site and see what they are entitled to.
I think if your DH gives them a hand out it will be the first of many.

If he and his brother were close that is a different matter, but from the way he has treated your DH in the past, I think it is a cheek to expect his help now.

I wouldn't bail them out

God, now I'm really confused. Because there are elements of both sides of the argument that I agree with.

I tend to feel that we should help, because we can, and they are family.

But I feel so hurt that our children have never even been acknowledged by him - PIL told me once about them telling him that our DS was in hospital, and apparently he just looked right through them and carried on talking about something else as if they hadn't said anything.

That still makes me so upset and angry to think about it.

what's your gut instinct?

I guess my gut instinct is that we should help the children and if this is the way to do it, then....

But I'm also worred that he won't be sensible with the money, and it will just postpone the inevitable but it will happen anyway.

Despite the family relationship situation, will it be of true benefit in the long term.
I would look at it logically
are we talking about a large amount?
how long has BIL been out of work?
Is he or SIL in a position to get work?
will bailiing them out now actually help in the long term, it may affect their benefits and if you give a lump sum to help get them upto date with bills etc they are going to be in the same situation again in a few months time, maybe you could offer support in other ways help set up a business for them or help in other ways which could be more beneficial in the long term.

So don't do it then.

Ok.

Thanks all.

I need to talk this through to DH, who is likely to be less open to helping BIL than me I think.

I don't know what kind of financial help anyone is expecting - DH is away on business at the moment and MIL called early this evening - a long diatribe about 'poor' BIL, how terrible it is, how he desperately needs some financial assistance but PIL don't have any spare cash...then big hint about our financial situation and then, "anyway, BIL did say that he would like to speak to you all sometime very soon"

SO maybe he doesn't want money, has just realised life is too short or something? BUt MIL was definitely hinting about 'financial support'

I wouldn't do it.

We helped out our BIL (Dhs' brother) with an interest free car loan last year. When we questioned that he wasn't keeping to the verbally agreed repayments, he and his wife called us all sorts of nasty things, and have cut off contact.

I always think that if I were in a position where I was overstretched, in debt and lost my job, I have no one to blame except myself and I wouldn't expect nor ask anyone to bail me out.

What would bailing out entail though? One or two month's mortgage payments to get them on their feet? Unlikely. If they are in serious financial mess you would probably be talking either a huge sum or a sticking plaster that would not sort them out anyway. If it really was just a couple of months' mortgage I'd be tempted to give it no strings (if I had it) just for the sake of the dcs but if not - you risk being seen as a cash cow.

No. No way. I would never bail out someone if they couldnt ask me themselves- it speaks absolute volumes.

DIttany I don;'t know why PIL told us that - BIL goes through phases of falling out with them, then being on friendly terms again.

When PIL are being frozen out they are very free with their criticism of him, but when they are friendly they like to act as though everything is ok and shut the lid on all this kind of stuff.

But that is another story really.

he sounds awful actually.

i wouldn't do anything on your pil say-so.

wait for him to make contact and see how he progresses.

only do what you both agree to and both feel comfortable with.

tointerveneornot

Do not bail out this BIL of yours (I write that from experience because if you help such people as my H has tried to do in the past it is not without consequence for either of you). What your PILs are doing reeks of emotional blackmail actually.

I told my H not to try and advise his brother (whose life was and is a complete shambles) at the time because it would backfire on him. I was unfortunately proven correct because his brother threw his kindness back at him.

It will not help anyone in the long run, enabling just stops the person being enabled seeing the consequences of their actions.

If the positions were reversed would your PILs be on the phone to him asking for "financial support"?. Probably not.

Your BIL has had opportunity to acknowledge receipt of presents for his children but has chosen not to. He has chosen not to accept any olive branch you have given out. That says an awful lot about him - and his wife as well. Your BIL too has probably forgotten why this feud started in the first place but his position is entrenched and will likely remain so.

I suppose you have 3 options :

a. Give him the money and exepct it to be the last your see of it - or him and his family. He probably feels entitled to your DHs money anyway.

b. Lend him the money and have it legally drawn up fo rrepayment purposes.

Both of the above would be dependant on him bothering to make contact himself.

c. Do nothing but don't beat yourselves up - he is not actually your responsibility.

I agree with Katisha, those are the three options.

I don't think you would ever see the money again. The type of person that takes excessive risks, in my experience, feels the world owes them a living and never pay debts back.

I have family members on both sides who are like this though lovely in every other way - just absolutely hopeless with money.

e.g. one family member has twice borrowed from her sister so she can travel to Australia to see her grandchildren. The trips have never happened and the money has never been paid back.

Another family member has been bailed out sooooo many times and is still on the verge of sinking (again) and really it would have been better if she just sank in the first place!

It is tough. If you have the money to give then choose between (a) and (c). I wouldn't even bother with (b), you sound too nice to get a contract enforced and BIL would only turn it against you if you tried.

Horrible situation. Sounds like trying to keep the house is pointless anyway? If he was an estate agent during the easy money bubble years and even then got a 6x salary mortgage, the mortgage must be immense and, unless he's a brilliant salesman who can apply such skills in a high paying industry, he is not going to ever keep up with that mortgage, let alone pay off the principal. Realistically sounds like they need to rent. They wouldn't have to go into a B&B, if he is unemployed and claiming JSA then he would be entitled to local housing allowance (housing benefit) once savings come under the allowed level, so they'd need to find a rental that accepts benefits.

There's probably more to this than a fall out over a girl isn't there? Sounds like your DH is a very sorted type and BIL isn't, probably all sorts of competitive stuff went on between them during childhood and that was the last straw?

if you can help them out i would do it in this way

you buy a % of the house - therefore lowering their mortgage to something that they can manage.

that way you aren't throwing the money away - you are making an investment for your children whiilst being financially astute - long term.

there may be legal pitfalls - and the legalities themselves will cost money - you would have to think about repairs - and how that is worked out.

but if you could buy 40% (or whatever) of their home it would lower their mortgage and enable them to keep the house for their childrem

if you are doing this for the children - it makes sense - then i presume they can't go re-mortgaging and getting loans against the house without your knowledge - therefore forcing them to take a candid look at their finances.

its an idea

Thanks all, cutlass that's a sensible option, and one I would definitely consider.

I doubt BIL would go for it - I can see all manner of tensions there already, as you say relating to repairs and the like. Plus think BIL would think we were 'lording' it over him.

I think everyone's advice has been spot on - do nothing, and don't consider doing anything without being asked by BIL directly.

IME bailing out family members always ends up with resentment on one or both sides.

My db has not spoken to me in 8 years (totally his choice) and my parents do what they can to get his ds and my dds together every now and then. I've often wondered what I would do if he needed help (emotionally or finacially) and people say "he's your brother of course you'll help" BUT tbh too much water has gone under the bridge now. If he'd have wanted to be a part of my life he would have, the fact that by an accident of nature we have a blood bond does not mean I owe him anything. He has not acknowledged any significant events in my life in the past 8 years and has chosen not to have any kind of meaningful relationship with my dds. Therefore, I would not put myself out to help him - his has made his choice and must live with that.

I'd suggest that your BIL has also made his choice and should live with it - if your PIL want help for him that's their choice (and if they really wanted to they'd find the money somehow) but don't let them guilt trip you into 'buying in' to a relationship with him.

ChookKeeper, that's interesting to hear, thanks. Do you mind if I ask why he chose not to have contact with you?

It's all a bit outside of my experience, all this being-dead-to-someone-thing. In my family we fight and bitch, but we keep talking so I don't understand all this mafioso stuff.

Still wish there was an opportunity for the DCs to have a relationship with their cousins though. I don't actually want a relationship with BIL and neither does DH, but I think the PIL know the dc are the weak point for us...

As harsh as it may seem, absolutely what Kimi said... honestly, it's the only tack to take.

My DH has had all manner of 'relatives' suddenly appear when we went to live in his country, all of them after money, in total they asked us for over £300k in 3 years between them.

None of them would ever, and I mean ever, pay any of it back.

If PIL are that concerned, then they can help BIL. End of. The word 'Dead' kinda means only one thing. If he had worked his arse off and been as prudent as your DH, he wouldn't be in the situation he is in now.

You need to have the following question answered: "if the shoe were on the other foot, would BIL help your family?"

Friends/Family & Money = Oil and Water - never try to mix the two....