to think a 4 wk old is too young to stay overnight

[Nowtheres4]

.. at xh's? i had my new dd a couple of weeks ago and xh thinsk that in 2 weeks time when he will be having the older children (12,7 and 3) he has to have dd too?
shes b/f and i have no problem with him having her all day and i cna give expressed milk in a bottle and meet for a feed break but over 48 hours is far too long ?

sorry, I appear to have had a short circuit in the maths area of my brain as 4 x 6 clearly doesn't = 48!

Same point though - why not make it several shorter periods - much less stressful for the baby (and for the dad - does he really not remember what having a newborn is like? My DH is a fantastic and very hands-on father, but I suspect he would have run a mile rather than have sole custody of our babies for 48 hours at 4 weeks!

See Shiney your ex had spent the first 4 weeks being an equal parent to you so overnights at 5 weeks is not a massive stretch. You were obviously on fairly ok terms as well.

There is just no way that I would have left DS at 4 weeks with someone who had never spent the night with him. How can you be sure he would wake up quickly, if at all? What if the baby was distressed but not hungry and he had never spent the time with him to know what to do? I know that dads need to learn that if they are not resident but there are far better and saner ways than a 2 day stay! He could sleep at the OP's house and be in charge of nights, he can see the baby during the day, he could see the baby very often but that wouldn't involve two days away from mum.

And.....to be perfectly honest, at 4 weeks post partum, with insane hormones swishing around me and intense worry about my DS I would consider I had more rights to be near him that his dad. I just gave birth to him! I'm sure it's very hard for non res dads but this man needs to respect the wishes of the mother who until 4 weeks before was umbilically attached to this baby!

shineoncrazydiamond, I don't need to re-read your posts thanks. I was responding to that particular post.

totally agree with jellybeans

As I said in my earlier post there is no benefit to the baby in being separated from it's breastfeeding mother at this age. The child's needs come first in contact then the two parents.

I'm a bit shocked that most other people seem to think it comes down to which parent is more important.

sorry i didn;t get back sooner, its been very hectic here.
thank you everyone for your responses.

i am not denying that xh needs to spend time with dd2 at all, and relish the fact that he still wants to. i just don;t see how its practical at all. i have offered to be on call for feeds and to take her home at aorund 10p.m and drop her off once shes had her morning feed, so that the only time shes not with him is literally for whn the older children are sleeping.
i appreciate that in a few months time i might evne look forward to a full night uninteruppted sleep.

if history helps, xh left me when i was 8 months pregnant for another woman who is child free and 'less complicated'. all 4 children are xh's and we have been together for a long time 16 years, married for 13years.

i really do understand that fathers have as much right as mothers to bond with their baby and hes had unlimited access to dd2 since she was born, he has not once been there for a night feed or changed a nappy overnight or bathed her yet.

i really want thigns to remain civil and can see no other way than giving in at the moment as i'm too emotional to fight him. i fully b/f my other three children for a minimum of 12 months and so wanted to do the same wihtout bottles or formula but at the end of the day i do just want my family to be happy and not want the older children to be upset by seeing us fighting. the fights have already had an impact on my eldest sons behaviour and my younger son has become more withdrawn, thankfully dd1 (3) seems to be the least affected so far.

nowtheres4 - Don't be upset. If your intention is good - fostering good relationships between your ex and your children, then things should be fine in the end. All I would like to add is that giving in for an easy life is not always the best thing for the children. You need to make a proper considered decision about what is best, stick to it calmly and explain it properly to your X. If it is reasonable and considered then he shouldn't really argue.

Please don't give into his demands Nowtheres4. Please don't. See a solicitor, see your doctor, health visitor, whatever, there is no way in the world any person in authority would insist on you giving your XH overnight visitation rights.

You don't have to fight him or be uncivil, just say very politely and calmly, that your daughter will not be staying overnight as she is too young. You will reconsider in 6 months time and in the meantime he is welcome to come to the house as often as you see fit to see his daughter.

Are there no family members/friends who could get on your side and tell him to back off?

He sounds like a cunt, sorry but what sort of man leaves his 3 children and heavily pregnant wife in those circumstances? PLEASE don't let him walk over you. How dare he insist on his 'rights' when he has treated you like a piece of dirt under his shoe..

Fucking hell, I am getting angry now on your behalf. Where do you live OP - I'll come round and tell him for you!! See a solicitor!!!

i am in cntact with a solicitor to sort things out, just the visit will be over the weekend that the children and i will be moving into our new home. i asked to swap to the next weekedn already as i thought it would be nicer/better for the children to organise thier own bedrooms, rather than come home from a weekend with daddy to a whole new house.
tbh i don;t have a whole lot of support here. I have lots of friends but no one who i would be able to rely on in a situation such as this. I do have daily visits from a nurse and the health visitor every other day due to my history of post natal depression for which i was still on regular medications after dd1 was born.
i will speak to them and ask for advice and help and see what they suggest.
my mum says just switch to forumla feeding, this coing from a woman who criticised me heavily when i considered formula feeding before my first child was born.
thank you again everyone though for all your advice and points of view, even the ones that disagree with my op!

fathers do not have rights.

Mothers do not have rights.

Babies and children have rights, and fathers and Mothers have the responsibility to maintain those rights.

The baby has the right not to be put in a situation where it is separated from it's only (to date) care giver, without understanding why. The baby has a right not to be separated from it's only (to date) food source. the baby has the right to be as happy and unstressed as possible, and this does not mean the baby cannot see and spend time with the father, but it DOES mean the baby should not spend huge chunks of time away from it's only food source and carer, being expected to accept a new care giver and a new food source just to satisfy someone's selfish wish for an overnight cuddle.

Keep a tiny baby with it's primary carer at all times as far as I'm concerned.

There's no way a baby who is bonding with it's mother and is very new to the world should be away from it's mother for any more than a couple of hours, if that.

Perhaps if the OP's exh was so worried about bonding he should have made more of an effort with the marriage.

nowtheres4 i am really HATING your ex. what a git. he won't even swap a weekend so that your children can move house?

fishie- things weren;t too bad but have deterioated in the last week or so. its so hard to beleive that we had such a solid relationship for a number of years. my mum thinks i should have been more cautious as we are his second fmaily, he has 2 adult sons as well, but wasn;t married before. he always supported them and we had them to stay frequently, he paid monthly maintenece etc so i do think he will do the same again this time.
but i guess what i really need is someone whos there for me and the children emotionally and physically, money is not my main issue with him.

I hate your ex as well nowtheres4. How do some people live with themselves?!!

Yes, he may well have been unhappy with you, wanted out of the marriage etc etc.....but surely he owed you a modicum of loyalty and respect as the mother of his children not to leave you high and dry a few weeks before giving birth and then forcing you to move house when you have a 4 week old baby. I would never suggest to any man or woman to stay in a marriage in which they were actively unhappy but what happened to common decency???

Is he living with his new girlfriend? What does she have to say about her new boyfriend having a 4 week old baby. I certainly would not be letting any 4 week old child of mine near this woman so they can play happy families with your baby. God, I am cross...

Good luck with your solicitors appointment, OP, I really feel for you; your ex is an arse and deserves to be kicked into touch.

I really feel for you, I have been in the same situation but not breast feeding, I wouldn't let my exdh and his ow have dd2 until she was 6 months old - dd1 went from the very begining.

i told exdh take it to court if you really want to. He wanted his rtights etc etc and I just ignored the silly blown up bully - hard though.

Thing is your exdh knows you are vulnarable and they play on this.

I think in some ways the more you say no the less they ask and this reduces stress and rows.

Over the years I tryed to keep things amicable for the dd - and he just took the piss even more, they never appreciate it so don't get in a tissy.

I think if you allow him to bully you into this now then you could be setting a dangerous precedent, so that if/when you got to court, you will already have been seen to be 'okay' with this and they may see no reason for it not to continue. Whereas if you refuse and it goes to court, NO judge is going to grant him overnight access for at least 6 months, probably longer.

Because thank goodness the courts seem to realise that it is not good for breastfeeding babies or their mothers to be separated at night or for very long stretches at a young age. I am really saddened that so many posters here think it is OK. FWIW I had to be separated for a week from my DS1 when he was 4 months while I was ill in hospital and it was horrible, just awful. I can't understand why someone who had been through that experience would think that others should have it forced on them just because their ex is a bully and puts his selfishness before the new baby he LOVES so much

My ex tryed when dd2 was 3 to take her away for more than a week (the previous time she had been away with him for 2 weeks and was a complete nightmare when she returned -glue dc really distressed)

He tryed using a solicitor and this didn't work - I offered three seperate weeks, it was never taken any further as they knew (ex and solicitor) that it wouldn't wash in court as I was being more than reasnable. Sadley since then he has taken her away once in 8 years it is all for show.

If you agree to ex dh having your 4 week old dd in the day time and as much access as he wants then he can go to a solicitor and you may well get the letter etc but they will not take it to court as they will get laughed at when you are already allowing access and being reasnable - infact the judge will be cross for your ex wasting his time if it ever got that far.

The fathers rights brigade gone a bit quiet, huh?

The biggest problem to helping good fathers get rights is wankery fathers like this one. You walk out on your 3 children and pregnant wife for someone else and then start dictating your rights to your children? Heres a hint fellas, you want to see your children lots and be a good dad? Try not walking out on them in the first place.....

nowtheres4 - just wanted to say I am IN AWE of how well you seem to be managing, given the circs. and I am fuming on your behalf re your ex leaving.you are doing an incredible job of putting your children first. at the end of day, you are going to be able to say, hand on heart, that you did everything you could, everything you thought was right (however you resolve this current situation). you're clearly an amazing mum.

pooexplosions - that was cheap re "the fathers' rights brigade". the new info doesn;t change the principles behind what a lot of people said. and I, for one, see this as an essentially feminist argument - equality in parenting, for me, is not about giving something to fathers, it's about just that - equality. it's about debunking the idea that children are women's business.

Hatwoman normally I would agree with you re parenting not being women only. But BF is women's business and making a woman risk mastitis or the end of BF when she doesn't want to is not good for women or babies.