to think that 4 1/2 years old is too young to spend a whole day at school?

[dingledangle]

My Dd started school two weeks ago and has loved going every day up until this week. Today she said that she did not want to go as she wanted to wear her own clothes and that the day is too long. (She started full time after a week of half days.)

As I was trying to console her this morning I felt like saying actually I agree the day is too long and yes school uniform is silly.

Before she started school I felt that in the UK our school systems starts children too young and that a whole day is an awful lot for children so young. But I find it really difficult defending something when I agree with what she is saying!

AIBU? Perhaps I am being over liberal but I do think that 1 /2 day would be ok for her and that the whole idea of conforming to school uniform and other stuff completely restricts all personal and social development!

The TA said to me today that all the children do get a 'reality check' after a couple of weeks. But I wonder really is that what I really want. Where is the child centred part of schooling?!

Does anyone else feel this way or AIBU?

Portfino - if I remember your child goes/went to a nursery where they do lots of fun stuff. Not all nurseries are so great.

Some nurserys are brilliant (like the one DS1 went to)and some go down the learn how to behave nicely from a DVD route (DS2's nursery).

I don't thisnk school uniform restricts personal and social development of the child, but it can be upsetting for mums to see their cute, chubby DC de-personalised in a uniform.

Poface - I have no idea what the council would call our arrangement as I'm not planning to tell them. They don't legally have to start until the term after they turn 5 and even then I think it's unlikely anyone will come knocking as we've never enrolled them in state education so there's no record of them in local eduction. Having said that, we do get the grant so maybe they will. Although around here the 'good' schools are so oversubscribed I think they'll be relieved to have two places freed up as long as they can tell we're not spending all day smoking weed and watching tv...

thanks 2t3. As we're registered we'd definitely get a call. Thinking about doing it more and more.

Go for it! What's the worst thing that could happen?

YAB TOTALLY U
But I think you know that.
People who think school uniform silly ared mostly the one who want to send little johnny/jenny to school in head to toe boden to show off.
Uniform is there for a reason.
Also 4 and a half is perfectly find to be in school all day, although by law you did not have to send her till she was 5, maybe you should have waited.

It is just moving him might be unsettling. Definitely going to keep it in mind. I wish they had smaller classes, I volunteered in class today and it was chaos.

Maybe try posting on the Home Ed forum if you haven't already?

yes might but don't plan to HE beyond 6, just want to give him more flexibility this year.

Just an example to illustrate my view on this topic: My cousin's daughter (they live in Denmark) is December born and so fell between the school years. She could have started school when she was 6 1/2, but the kindergarten, school and parents decided together that it would be best to hold her back a year. She was quite socially immature and would start to cry almost immediately if someone picked on her, even very gentle teasing. She was also a bit of a follower of stronger kids and the adults therefore felt that she would benefit a lot from being one of the oldest in her kindergarten class instead of a younger pupil at school. She flourished as a result and is now full of confidence and charging ahead with her reading and all of that, having just started first grade aged 7 1/2.

That is the kind of individual attention and flexibility I think should be applied when any child starts school. My cousin uses the state system and lives in a very socially mixed part of Copenhagen. However, there are obviously differences to the UK in that there are a lot fewer people in Denmark for the system to cope with. However I think the level of investment in education, the structure of the system and the approach to children's learning and development is in a different stratosphere. You don't get that kind of treatment here even if you pay an arm and a leg for a private school, because the overwhelming trend in education here is so focused on academic achievement, as opposed to emotional maturity, social skills.

I think we'd have a much more well-rounded society if we gave children more space to develop at their own pace and nurtured their interests instead of imposing targets.

Rant over !

{hmm} though 2to3, why was she still so socially immature at 6.5? Especially if she was already at kindergarten?

Lynette, you're right - we were really lucky with our UK nursery. It was absolutely fantastic and I do realise not everyone gets such great options. When we moved abroad, I left my job after 11 years and escaped the premises with no tears. At the nursery I was distraught. They'd brought presents and done a lovely poster with hand prints of all the children and staff. I was sobbing and had to be escorted to the car! .

That's just how she is, and that is the whole point - that the system should be flexible enough and geared towards accommodating children with different needs, both positive and negative. Here it is one size fits all, like it or lump it, and I think that's wrong because while it might suit lots of children, it will be totally wrong for others who have no alternative.

Yes, I also object to the term baby storage. My DD adores her little nursery and actually smiles and laughs when she realises where we are every morning. Of all the nurseries in my town, and it is relatively sizeable, I have only ever heard bad things said about one nursery, and excellent things about all the others. I think that people who don't have any personal experience of nurseries may think of it as baby storage but if they went to visit they would be very impressed. I think the Nursery ICT curriculum is excellent - you can get your toddler to record Eastenders for you while you go down the pub.

Messalina, it's lovely that your daughter smiles and laughs when she realises where she is. But there is nothing that would convince me that small children should be doing anything other than bonding with one person who cares about them as an individual more than anything else, and who is prepared to spend time doing 'boring' stuff with them (sorting the washing, walking to the shops, making the beds and so on). Seeing that in action impresses me more than anything else.

a) could you have deferred her and if so why didn't you? assuming you couldn't or even didn't ... not much you can do now. You may agree with her about school uniform and it being too long a day but its your job to be SEEN to be supporting the teachers. If parents don't teach respect for elders where does that leave society? (not saying you don't). My DD has just started school too and I hug her and try to brush her worries aside without seeming uncaring at the same time. She has to go, what can I do? I'll tell you - love and spoil her when she gets home. Support and encourage her as much as I can. Form a good relationship with the teacher. Worry constantly but never show her that I agree the days are too long and I missed her dreadfully too.

My ds has just started school at 4.5 & loves it. He's used to being at nursery full-time & is still currently going to school mornings then nursery afternoons which is really awkward particularly as he wants to go to school all day now. He's definitely ready for school although there are a few children who are struggling to adjust.

In Scotland, so my kids started at 5y6m, 5y6m and 4y9m. Older ones were ready, but my dd2 who is now 5y10m still falls asleep on the school bus sometimes.

I think some children start ridiculously early, but thats just MO.

I think YABU but then I would, because my DC have both done more-or-less FT nursery from babyhood and a school day seemed really short to DS when he started at 3.10.

It's just the novelty wearing off - she will have forgotten all about it by this afternoon. If you want to HE, fine, but assuming you do want her in the school system you have to get through these minor niggles whilst being seen to support the school 100%.

So why do so many 4 year olds cry in the class room in the morning?

In my exp[erience as a youth offending volunteer, the majority of teenaged bad behavior is due entirely to weak parenting. the cry of the weak parent being "I know my child's a complete little shit and everyone hates him/her ....But what can we do?"

This applied throughout the rungs of society, I have visited shabby council flats, I have visited huge mansions, but when you talk to the parents, it's the same damn cry ... "but what can we do?"

Bluntly, it's fuck all to do with nurseries.

Thanks everyone.

One week on from my initial post and my DD has not repeated all those comments made to me last week.

I think it has opened up an interesting discussion both on MN and in our household.

I still think that the one size fits all approach does not work for children but appreciate the complexities of organising a more flexible system.

I can see the arguments from most sides, although I may not agree with all that has been posted.

I will see how DD continues to find the schooling she is receiving and I will support her all the way.

Thanks for your posts.....

You can legally keep them at home or at nursery until aged five.

So why not have a chat with the head about reducing the hours such as half days until October haf term or even up until Christmas.

The reception teacher at DD's school said if they're exhausted come Thursday afternoon don't come in Friday. I thought this was a great attitude.

But as DD is October born and turning five in two weeks I am aware she is one of the oldest and seems to be coping with it well. She was more than ready to start.

But if she was the youngest rather than the oldest I would be looking to reduce the hours or days. You are well within your right to do this.

I have brought bedtime forward to 6.30 at the latest, though to help her cope as both her and her little sister are ready for bed by then.

Wine o'clock can start earlier too!!

YANBU. I think it's too long a day for that age too. It's not too early to start in a school setting, but definitely too many hours in their school day. My dd now even at 7 hates going for anything outside of school hours, even if it's fun things like 'Film Night' and stuff. Don't blame her really, I think she sees enough of the school during the day to not want to sight the place in the evening!

all depends on child

my dc is just 4, misses cut off date by 2 weeks, so he will start school in sept 10 4years 11mths and 2 weeks

he is ready to go now

though what you must think about is, if you decide that your child will do half days till legally has to go to school, then you are taking up a space that another child may want

friend didnt get her child into same school as older sibling as class was too big - only to find 4 parents had the same views and picked up their child 12pm every day till easter term and nearly 5