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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that 4 1/2 years old is too young to spend a whole day at school?

99 replies

dingledangle · 22/09/2009 13:05

My Dd started school two weeks ago and has loved going every day up until this week. Today she said that she did not want to go as she wanted to wear her own clothes and that the day is too long. (She started full time after a week of half days.)

As I was trying to console her this morning I felt like saying actually I agree the day is too long and yes school uniform is silly.

Before she started school I felt that in the UK our school systems starts children too young and that a whole day is an awful lot for children so young. But I find it really difficult defending something when I agree with what she is saying!

AIBU? Perhaps I am being over liberal but I do think that 1 /2 day would be ok for her and that the whole idea of conforming to school uniform and other stuff completely restricts all personal and social development!

The TA said to me today that all the children do get a 'reality check' after a couple of weeks. But I wonder really is that what I really want. Where is the child centred part of schooling?!

Does anyone else feel this way or AIBU?

OP posts:

LynetteScavo · 22/09/2009 20:55

YANBU, dingledangle.

Children very so much at this age. Some reception children are raring to go all day, while some need a much gentler pace.

My boys were shattered during reception, to the point where it disadvantaged them outside of school. (Noenergy for social life/swimming/library etc)

DD , started school last week, and is coping well with full days . However, she has said "I was there too long, mummy", and I have to agree with her.

2to3 · 22/09/2009 21:10

YANBU. I started formal school aged 6 1/2 in Scandinavia after doing a 'maturity test' [grin!] to see if I should be held back until 7 1/2 as I was born in the middle of the year. I wish now that I had been - I was good at learning but pretty rubbish with social skills in some ways and would have benefited from being one of the older ones instead of always the youngest. It's a tough call though, and only you can decide what's best for your child.

Personally, I feel UK children get a raw deal. So many nurseries are just child storage instead of teaching social and developmental skills, and formal schooling starts too early. Especially for boys. And there's too little focus on the social side of school - the pressure to perform academically is so strong because of league tables etc. Even the main teacher's union (NUT) say formal school shouldn't start until 7. I'm keeping mine out of formal school until they're 6 - they've got far too much playing and running around to do still. But I realise this isn't an option for everyone, and it does mean juggling a lot and fitting my work around them.

LynetteScavo · 22/09/2009 21:35

2to3, I think you are right about "child storage"

floatyjosmum · 22/09/2009 21:38

tbh i think that for a lot of children it prob doesnt affect them.
due to work etc a lot of children are in fulltime daycare which would be for longer periods of time than school is

Kirstieallsoppsalterego · 22/09/2009 21:44

YANBU, dingledangle. I asked permission to send my DD for half days until I thought she was ready for full days; the head was happy to oblige. Incredibly, nobody had ever asked her before; I think they may well ask now they know it's possible, though. I didn't send DS at all until he was nearly five; he did the last term in Reception.

My one caveat was that it's an independent school, and it may be easier to get what you want in indie schools.

Then pesky DD decided she might miss something, so she ended up doing full days at 4.7 at her insistence!!

('Child storage' is exactly right, 2to3...)

pofacedandproud · 22/09/2009 22:15

2to3 I agree with you entirely. How are you doing it, keeping your dcs out of formal school until they are 6? Are you home schooling?

slowreadingprogress · 22/09/2009 22:43

Now that my own ds is in juniors, it strikes me even more how tiny the reception kids are. Two little boys passed me yesterday, in full uniform, absolutely tiny little dabs of humans - and expected to last a full day. They were little more than toddlers. They had that chubby faced toddler look.

It really is crazy.

And yes I'm another who found, for my ds, starting at 4 was too much too young. He would so have benefitted from one more year at home.

2to3 · 22/09/2009 22:50

Hi poface - they'll stay at a Montessori preschool/nursery where they've been for two years so far (they are twins). It's only 3 hours a day and completely focused on child-led learning through play. It will get expensive once they lose their grant in Feb, but we have decided to prioritise it as we don't think they're ready for school. The nursery is licensed to teach children until they turn 6, so we'll keep them there until next summer then spend a year making things up as we go along. My in-laws look after them for two days every week, which helps a lot, and they do have each other for company. We'll focus on whatever they happen to be interested in and sing up for swimming/sports/drama whatever so they see other kids.

At 6 1/2 we'll probably send them to school. I've been told that it's not necessarily difficult to get places at that age around here (London), as people move around a lot and also take their children out of state education to send them to prep schools around that age.

It felt very weird in the beginning to make up our own solution instead of following the system along with all their peers, but I just don't agree with it on so many levels and so it would have felt even weirder to send them to school in Jan next year.

flopalong · 22/09/2009 23:50

Wait until 3 to toilet train
where was that advice then? on the huggys website? I started all of mine by the age of 2, I never expected them to be fully trained then however I saved alot of nappys. They do still have accidents up untill they are 4 sometimes (usually because they don't want to give up a toy) that doesn't mean you shouldn't train them.
Reception class is supposed to be based on the eyfs and play based, there are times in the day when they all sit down to do work but it should be fun, phonics last about 15 to 20 mins.
If they make children sit for longer than this I would talk to the teachers or look for a different school.
My DS was born in July and strated in the september, they were lovely, he could be tired but they allowed him to take it easy all the HARD stuff was done in the mornings and just after dinner they had free access to outside it was fabulous. He loved it, however when he moved to year one it was a different story, sitting down all day and set play times did not sit well with him, year 2 seems to be going better so fingers crossed.
My DD was also a july babay and started nursary within the same unit where the reception children are this month, she has just done her 3rd full day and seems a little tired when she first comes out. A snack and a drink sorts her out though.
I think full time is fine but that it should be play based till 7. I don't think it's fair to make them sit still for that long at sucha young age

midlandsmumof4 · 23/09/2009 01:12

Sorry, I don't agree with any of this. Is this parental attitude where teenage bad behaviour comes from eventually? 4 and a half is not too young to wear a uniform or to be at school all day. For goodness sake,its about time parents started to support schools. Our children learn from the positive encouragement of their parents and if these same parents say school uniform is silly and a full day is too long in the early days-what hope is there for the future? In their eyes, what will constitute a normal school day?

CommonNortherner · 23/09/2009 06:16

HAHAHAHA how simplistic!!!

CommonNortherner · 23/09/2009 06:18

Sorry, that was rude of me. But really...!

diddl · 23/09/2009 07:24

But children don´t have to go until they are 5 do they?

Romanarama · 23/09/2009 07:35

I long for uniforms. So much less complicated at 7am.

Mine are fine all day, though the 3 and 4 yr olds can nap after lunch. They don't have to go at all on Wednesdays though (though I send mine for the 1/2 day that's possible). They are quite tired, but that's more to do with my laxity over bedtime routines, I expect.

BonsoirAnna · 23/09/2009 07:39

DD started all day school (9 am to 4.15 pm) here in France at 3.10, but she could have started all day school a full year earlier. She wore school uniform from 2.10 for half days only.

I agree that it is a very long day for little ones. I try to bring DD home for lunch a couple of times a week, rather than leaving her in the canteen, in order to give her a bit of a break.

Flamesparrow · 23/09/2009 07:47

anastaisia · 23/09/2009 08:00

another home educator, so own views are that 4 is too young to be a routine school starting age anyway (nothing wrong with recognising that some children might be ready and benefit, but that's very different).

YANBU, if your DD is telling you school is tiring her out, and you feel that it is, then it is. No point comparing it to how other children react to being in school for shorter or longer periods, because - well they aren't your DD so it isn't really relevant.

LynetteScavo · 23/09/2009 09:28

This is such a tough one!

I was so angry that DS1 had to start school at 4.9 (not angry enough to home ed, though), but DD who has just turned 4 seems to be managing brilliantly with a full day, has already learned to read the names of the ORT characters (she has been at school for 4 days - why are they doing that all ready???) and is not at all tired at bed time. The quality of care at her school seems to be better than she recived at nursery too.

I think there should be more parental choice as to when children start school, with Y1 being more friendly to children starting school for the first time.

PuppyMonkey · 23/09/2009 09:39

Goodness me, they're usually only doing colouring in and having stories read at that age - not long division and algebra. Kids get tired no matter what. I don't think it will kill 'em to be at school and wearing, shock, a uniform.

Child storage eh? Must nip to Ikea to get me some of that.

Kirstieallsoppsalterego · 23/09/2009 10:38

Midlandsmum - I'm sorry, but I'd say that much teenage bad behaviour is the result of children being farmed out and institutionalised too soon. How can children learn about the world around them and how to behave outside their own four walls if they're locked away all day (some of them from three months old)?

I know of children who 'know' about saying please and thank-you to shopkeepers and not dropping litter because they've seen it on a DVD at nursery. What about real-life experience?

I'm a great fan of uniforms once they're actually at school, though.

Portofino · 23/09/2009 11:29

Locked away! My dd has been in ft childcare since she was 6 months old and is now 5.5. She has done a fantastic variety of things in her short life to date, both inside and outside. Much, much, much more than I ever did as a small child - which was pretty much local shop/garden/house until I went to school. I totally object to the term baby storage!

Portofino · 23/09/2009 11:32

I'm not a fan of "farmed out" and "instutionalised" either.

jellybeans · 23/09/2009 11:35

My DSs were 4 literally a couple of days before starting f/t school, they were fine. It is very young but they soon settle.

pofacedandproud · 23/09/2009 12:04

2to3 do the council view that as Homeschooling, if they have part time nursery care and 2 days at home? I thought about doing the same thing at a local montessori, but thought I would then be classed as Home schooling, and as the badman report seems to have thrown home schooling into disarray, was a bit unsure.

Kirstieallsoppsalterego · 23/09/2009 12:05

No offence intended, Portofino. However, I see nothing wrong with a small child's life consisting of local shop/garden/house. That's what my children have known; it was a positive choice on my part, and I think they have benefited hugely from it.

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