to think that 4 1/2 years old is too young to spend a whole day at school?

[dingledangle]

My Dd started school two weeks ago and has loved going every day up until this week. Today she said that she did not want to go as she wanted to wear her own clothes and that the day is too long. (She started full time after a week of half days.)

As I was trying to console her this morning I felt like saying actually I agree the day is too long and yes school uniform is silly.

Before she started school I felt that in the UK our school systems starts children too young and that a whole day is an awful lot for children so young. But I find it really difficult defending something when I agree with what she is saying!

AIBU? Perhaps I am being over liberal but I do think that 1 /2 day would be ok for her and that the whole idea of conforming to school uniform and other stuff completely restricts all personal and social development!

The TA said to me today that all the children do get a 'reality check' after a couple of weeks. But I wonder really is that what I really want. Where is the child centred part of schooling?!

Does anyone else feel this way or AIBU?

YABU regarding the school uniform. As another poster has said, it is a great leveller, and in my experience, most young children love it. I think it also helps them mentally, as in 'this is what I wear when I go to school', so they can differentiate between school and play.

I suppose if a child is not used to being away from home for a full day, then it will take some getting used to, and you could maybe consider a few half days to ease into it.

My DD has been doing full days at nursery since she was 11 mths and she manages just fine, and without a nap since about 2 yrs, so I know that she will be fine handling school. However, she will still need to settle in and meet all the new people, so that might be more taxing in itself to start with, and therefore more tiring.

Thanks for your replies.

I do not think that there is a 'one size fits all' approach to this issue.

I agree that uniform is ok and a great 'leveller' as has been said. However, the liberal side of me also says that we stifle childrens individuality and over regiment them when they are too young. I think my DD observation that the day is too long is interesting in itself and that she does not like wearing the uniform as she cannot wear her 'more interesting' clothes.

I have been very careful in the way that I ask her why she did not want to go to school today and I think sometimes that children do talk sense! Perhaps we do not always listen to what they say?

What is the saying 'Out of the mouths of babes....'

Children sometimes have to realise that they have to do things (eg wear uniform) which they might not like.
It's hardly stifling her individuality.

She has all evening to wear her other clothes, she can dress up and parade around naked to her heart's content.

My sons don't have interesting clothes, because we are poor. The school uniform offered by my son's school is practical, durable, and most importantly - affordable. If all the children go to wear their own clothes, half the children there would be in sports logoes and mine would feel very left out by that.

RE the long days - I firmly believe that taking them out of school when they are tired is fine throughout reception.

Yanbu about feeling that way. My DS is the same age, and I think that when he will go whole days next week, it may be a bit too much.

Then again, he will get some down time after school (sofa cuddle telly moment)and I´m not planning too much after school activity for the first two terms.

If he´s really tired, I´ll keep him home for an afternoon.

About uniforms, yabu.I think it´s easy for me (no debates as to what to wear)so I don´t object. I am not a fashion person anyway, so for me clothes are all about functionality and not about expressing oneself.

My ds just started full time and thinks he has a very short day, I work 3 days and he was in nursery with his brother those days 8.45 till 5.30.

I'm with coliditz on the uniform, they are so cheap now, all the children can look nice and smart.

Ds1 has always been used to choosing his own clothes so the uniform thing is a bit of a battle some mornings, but he understands in the main that this is for school and everyone has to wear it.

Yes, you are. The school day is only 6 hours long. Within that they are plenty of breaks and a lunch hour.
The uniform goes some way to minimise the gap between the haves and the have nots, takes the focus off clothes and fashion and is practical and cheap.

I agree with much of what you say OP. I think it should be more flexible, and that it would no be so very difficult for that to be made possible. I also hate school uniform - though I am getting over it - the arguments regarding haves and have nots just now apply to shoes, school bags, toys etc.

I think YABU to voice this to your dd though. She needs to know you believe school is the right thing for her.

Alternatively have you approached the school about flexi schooling? You could home ed for a day or 2 per week, and do some great stuff at home together. I know a few people for whom this has really worked well, and lots of schools are quite open to it.

YABU, Children in the UK have been starting school at age 4 for decades- it's never done anyone any harm- and it must work as it's been continued for so long.

My DS has just started school, full time, at nearly 5 he's a little older than your LO but he's been ready for a long time. My DC's haven't been in full time nursery or anything either, just half days at nursery then onto school.

I also think that this is the best age to get them into routines of school etc- its when they are most obedient to the teachers and can start the way they mean to continue. Also a good age to start them learning propely, making friends etc.

cmhb, i think the starting age was chosen to prevent kids being sent up chimneys and down mines. not for any reasons relating to child development.

my ds was used to 8am to 6pm days at nursery so school was a much shorter day
it was the walk there and back that nackered him out in reception

Seriously - wearing a uniform does not and will not stifle a child's individuality or unique personality.

Believe me when I say that at times when I was a secondary school teacher, I sometimes wished it did!!! But it doesn't.

Children will manage to let their own personalities shine through regardless of what they are or are not wearing.

When I started school - about 23 years ago, the rule was that you started school the term after you turned 5 - my bday is Oct so I started in Jan, when I was 5 1/4. By the time my sis started 8 years later, the rule had changed that you started at the beginning of the school year during which you would turn 5 - her bday is Aug so she started school in Sept, just after turning 4. And presumably was expected to start doing the same work, have the same social skills etc. I think it made a massive difference in terms of her making friends and coping with homework etc.

I also wonder if this is a factor in the recent complaints about children starting school still unable to toilet themselves, use a knife and fork etc. If the current advice is to wait until after 3 to toilet train, and they're starting school at 4... doesn't leave a huge margin for error does it??

Yes I do think that! I home educate.

I started school 32 years ago. I was 4y6m.

My brother started school 30.5 years ago as a January starter, at 4y6m.

My sister started school 23y ago, as a January starter, aged 4y5m. Infact she was so ready to start school (would have been g&t these days if it had existed) my mum, with the GP/HV/nursery's backing, tried to appeal for her to start in the previous September but were unable.

Children have started at 4y old at school for ages.

I'm quite shocked that 4.5 year old can't cope with a 6 hour day! My dd hasn't napped at lunch time since she was about 3!

Under the Belgian system she has been at school/afterschool club from about 8.15 til 5 since 2.5. In the first year they still had a sleep at lunchtime. The dcs all seem to cope with this fine. It's not "formal" education til 6, but they are still working on projects, paying attention, learning through play etc.

I think it depends on the child. My DD started school just before she was 4. (She has always been taught a year ahead.) She has masses of energy and is a socially confident child. She loved school from the start. My son is 4.5 and is a much quieter child. He has just started in reception and does seem more tired than he was at pre school. I am happy for him to do half days at present.
If you are not happy with your child doing full days yet, I would just discuss it with her teacher. She should be able to continue on half days until she is 5.

Portofino - DD didn't need to nap by school age either (hadn't done since before turning 2y though) and was used to full days (albeit 3 days a week) at nursery. nd TBh our reception is very much informal learning now, with little formal sit down learning (or rather there shouldn't be!)

And yes, I agree, many children can cope easily with the full day.

Sorry if I came over a bit harsh. I've not experienced the UK system since I was in it myself - and I started school in 1973 1993! My dd is now 5.5 and has already done 3 full years. It's hard to make a direct comparison as this year I think she is kind of Reception level in one way but Y1 in others. And the last 2 years have really kind of been Reception level. They've covered a lot of ground already.

With regards to social and preparation for learning skills though I swear the system here is fantastic.

YANBU. Just politely but firmly arrange for your child to go half-days until the summer term. They legally can't refuse, I don't think?

I was always of the 'school uniform is the right thing' camp... until my DC started school! Then I realised how boring and herd-like it is. At least give them a choice of, say, four different coloured shirts to wear (they can all have the school logo on) - at least then letting them choose a different colour in the morning.

God I wish we had uniforms! I hate the endless discussions about appropriate/inappropriate clothing! I don't want to discourage dd to develop her own style, but she doesbt take the weather/colour coordination into account at all!

yanbu - It's starts far to young in this country.

In other european countries they start later and educationally have better results.

Also on a selfish level I will miss them too much

when i posted to ask whether i should keep my dd out of reception, many posted to say that it puts them at a real disadvantage in terms of social skills to the rest of the class (even if they when to a different reception they were better)

and I am always when people say the UK starts earlier, cos many other countries may not start state education sooner, but other forms of private kindergarten style daycare are very widely use from 18mo on.

Would it be possible for her to come at lunch for a bit of kip?

the kindi i worked at enforced naps...all the way up to 7yo. fantastic - 2 hours of lunch for the teachers and fully charged class to teach after. if only english schools did that!

i migh add, that i love dressing up my daughter, and dread uniform. but i agree that uniform is a great leveller, and do remember having my clothes laughed at by other kids in my primary school before they brought in uniform...so support it.

get some nice hair things?