to be so peeved that we spend approx £1400 a month on childcare

[couture1]

I know I have to pay for the service but it leaves me with little left over each month and we need to salaries to get by. I dont want to give up work as 1 cant afford to and 2 Im hoping that when 3dc are at school in 3 years time we will be better off each month - but how do we manage until then?

Rant rant rant

Offering criticism to mums who choose to work over looking after their children is the great taboo after smacking.
It shouldn't be the topic should be open to debate and that is what FabBakerGirlIsBack has done.
Some mums are better mums because they work and wouldn't be very nice to their children if they didn't work and some are not. Some mothers have no choice because they want a respectable home for their children, some think they have no choice because they can't live with the little extras.
I think you ABU to expect subsidy for childcare. Choices need to be made, but why should a childless person or a person supporting a stay at home parent work that bit harder to pay tax so that you can have cheaper child care which many studies suggest may not even be the best care for your child?

Silver - the op hasn't stated she expects a subsidy for childcare.

OP - most childmnders are around the £4.50 per hr mark. Would that work out cheaper for you?
Also, have you and your husband asked your employer about the childcare voucher scheme? You would gain a fair bit per yr from that as well.

I promise you it does get better when they get to school.

YANBU

If you don't have friends/family to help out, and so are paying for FT childcare Mon-Fri, the costs are inevitably a high proportion of most peoples wages.

When I first went back to work just over 10 years ago, I was paying £70 a week for my DS to go to a childminder. It was very cheap, but that was just as well because there is no other way I would have managed on my then salary of £1200 a month which had to cover all my bills & mortgage....

When I was last paying for FT childcare in the school hols last year, it was £250-300 a week for my 2 DSs...so not far short of your £1400, but thankfully only for 13 weeks a year.

It has been a struggle to keep going for the last 10 years, and for the first few until DC were at school it was hard to see much benefit in terms of finances - and I now have a fairly well paid job!

I would have loved some form of subsidised childcare, particularly something like a work based creche/nursery when they were babies, both because I would have got to spend more time with them travelling to & from work, & of course from the financial point of view.

When i worked as a childminder i was charging around £2.50 per child per hour (yorkshire) No where near minimum wage and i had food and equipment to by out of that!

People CHOOSE to have children, why should you get free/cheap childcare. Its awlful to say but if you cant afford children dont have them or just have one.

Silver - equally, why should I subsidise lung cancer treatment for smokers or A&E for binge drinkers who get themselves bashed up on a Friday night? Cos that's where my taxes go, as unfair as I may find it.

At least taxes going on subsidised childcare mean that a) more women will be in work and paying taxes in the present and b) more people will be able to afford that second or third child they wouldn't otherwise have been able to have, and these children will be the tax payers (and state pension payers) of the future.

It's crazy to say that childless people shouldn't be paying tax towards other people's children, because they will be relying on these children in the years to come.

Equally, being in childcare is definitely the better option for my children, because even if it's not of the highest quality, it's probably still a better option than me screaming like a banshee or ignoring them all day long, which I tend to do as a SAHM cos I'm miserable as hell in that position.

But if more women are needed to work so that childcare can be subsidised, then it kind of equals itself out, IMO.

yes but where are the jobs for the women?

"But if more women are needed to work so that childcare can be subsidised, then it kind of equals itself out, IMO. "

Perhaps this is true, but at least then women would have a choice as to whether or not to SAH or work. I've been forced to stay home, which I've hated, for 18 months because of childcare costs. And if DD1 had been born a week later, in September rather than late August, I'd have been stuck at home for another year (shudders at thought!).

Exorbitent childcare costs are taking choices away from women, and it never fails to surprise me how many women just say "meh, that's life" about the whole situation.

AnnieLobeseder the truth is no one in their early thirties should expect a state pension government words not mine, and should be saving accordingly.
As for why should smokers and drinkers be subsidised well;
The Health Service is open to all, and everyone makes a contribution towards it in National Insurance,
They pay higher taxes through the back door in alcohol and tobacco charges
They are likely to die younger and so wont be a long term drain on the NHS, yet will have contributed long term.
On the other hand subsidised childcare would be for a few, and probably if it is only subsidised not for the women who work in the poorest paid jobs who wouldn't be able to afford the non-subsidised aspects of employment.

"I don't want to give up work as I can't afford to"
yet you have little left over each month ??
Sounds like you can afford to, to me.
Therefore I don't understand why you choose to work, unless you want to.
If so YABU.

"Forced to stay at home"

Surely you didnt have a child just to put it in childcare annielobeseder? How can you say such a thing?

It is a woman choice to have a child no one is making you. It amazes me how many women spend years trying for a child just to shove them in childcare and go out to work full time!

I had 2 children in the full and certain knowledge they would be in full time childcare from 6 months old til they went to school.

Is there something wrong with having children on that basis? Or should you only have children if you don't intend to work?

Oh FGS kitty get real. As a part-time working mum, I am a lovely mother to my children. As a full time SAHM, I am a monster and we're all miserable. So me working is better for all of us. I actually define myself in terms that include aspects of my life other than just my children . I didn't have children so that I could be a mother and that be the end of the story for me. I'm so much more than just a mother. Sorry if you're not, and your children define your life completely.

hatesponge why have children knowing your putting them in childcare full time from such a young age?

If you have children surely you want to spend those first few years with them? There is so much parents miss (and some dont ever seem bothered). They grow up so fast.

Annie that post is very harsh, you've hated the 18 months you've been forced to spend with your child - how awful for your poor child spending time with someone who hates being with her.

Um, at the risk of coming rather late to the table, why shouldn't someone have a kid if they are going back to work full time. After all, fathers do this all the time and no one is outraged.
I am a SAHM, but I do not believe that to be the 'best' for my child - it suited us at the time.
There is nothing wrong with paid childcare for babies and children ffs. Had I had a decent job worth returning to then I would have had no qualms about my wee boy being in childcare.

It's normal to have children and put them in childcare. When you have children you're creating a future generation not making a toy to play with for a few years.

And Annie's right, just study Sweden. Give everyone a year maternity leave and make nursery free from 1 year. Hey presto, massively high participation of women in the workforce compared to everyone else and much higher tax take.

I had 2 children in nursery in Italy full time: 1st child was Euro 140 per month, 2nd was 98. After school club here in Belgium is 151 euros per year for the eldest and free for the little ones.

My children do not define my life. But i chose to have children and i looked after them. Parents have years to work only a few to watch their children grow

ANNIE Children defining someone's life is not a bad thing, helping someone get a good start in life is not a bad thing. Thinking your employment is worth more to you than the welfare of your child that would be a bad thing.

kitty, just because a parent is working does not mean they are not watching their kid grow. And you seem to be talking about Mums, not parents. I haven't heard you rail against working Dads...

What im trying to say is the first few years of your childrens life is something special. They can change every day, working the odd day/having a day to yourself etc parents need. But full time. As a childminder i saw so much and feel bad because i saw the first step heard the first word.

kitty, with DS1 I was a single parent. I had no contact with his father and no financial support from him. I wasn't prepared to sit at home on benefits for 4 years until he went to school knowing that I was fit and able to work and capable of supporting myself and my son financially.

With Ds2 I was in a relationship, but not a stable one. I worked for many reasons, both financial and emotional.

I have still looked after my children, and always been responsible for them, cared and loved them.I didn't need to be with then 24 hours a day to do that.

I think YABabitU

If you looked at your childcare costs, your costs travelling to work, your costs whilst there lunches, clothes etc and you are not breaking even then you have to make the decision to either give up work or find a more flexible and cheaper option, shift/weekend working, P/T, working from home etc.

Yes childcare costs are expensive but it always makes me a bit when people don't want to pay £4 an hour for childcare yet will pay a lot more for their gardener/cleaner/ironing lady than the person who cares for their children IYSWIM?

Every woman I know that works has family help I don't think there is one person I know whose DC don't go to a relative at least one day a week.

I also do not get this cannot afford to give up work thing, especially from people going on 2 holidays abroad a year, two flash cars parked in the drive, big house, kids in designer clothes etc want they mean is they do not want to give up their standard of life not that they cannot afford to.

So, kitty, should dads be home full time too then, so they don't miss the firsts?