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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU - sexist science homework

519 replies

Litchick · 17/09/2009 09:06

Lst night's science homework was to write a short passage about a famous scientist, what they discovered and its applications today.

Fine except that each question said 'he'.

Eg what was his name? What did he discover?

DD and I chose Marie Curie and changed everything to she.

AIBU to make the point on the prep sheet or just touchy?
Does it matter? It felt to me like it does. Grrrr

OP posts:
edam · 22/09/2009 22:22

You know, UQD, sometimes you can take pedantry a little too far... (and I say that as a fully signed up pedant).

I like 'they' best but if you have to use 'he or she' every ruddy time, I think 's/he' is far easier.

Do you think there's just possibly something a wee bit telling about the way you reject all options bar the one that puts 'he' first?

edam · 22/09/2009 22:24

(Mind you, I'm a hack ? generally prefer things that avoid inflating the word count without good cause.)

larrygrylls · 22/09/2009 22:41

LovelyTinOfSpam,

It was never my intention to hurt your feelings or put you off Mumsnet. I apologise unreservely for my "ad feminam" attack. I enjoy a lively debate and sometimes state my point of view too aggressively. Re my previous thread, I do recall you becoming personal ahead of me, as it is something I rarely do.

Anyway, I think Mumsnet is mainly for Mums and so this will be my last post on it. It has been fun and I have really enjoyed taking the other side of the general consensus, and there are some really fantastic posters on here. As a forum for parents (well mothers at least) it is of very high quality and I wish everyone the best of luck with their families in the future.

All the best and, once again, apologies,

Laurence

MrsMerryHenry · 22/09/2009 23:51

Haven't caught up with all the pages I've missed, but slug has reminded me of something.

Slug: "It is interesting though, that when black people are airbrushed out of company advertisements, a large hue and cry ensues in the media. However, when women are airbrushed out of the language there is a significant minority who seem to think it does not really matter."

Do you remember a few weeks ago when David Starkey was complaining that female historians were not dedicating enough energy to writing about men in history, that they were frittering their time away writing nonsense about this that and the other woman who really was a secondary character to the life on Henry VIII, for example? (The Today programme covered it)

It's a classic David and Goliath thing. When Goliath is in power, he doesn't see anything wrong with the way he's abusing his power for his own ends. But once David gets a leg up and starts righting the balance, all of a sudden Goliath gets in a stink about how things should be balanced more in his favour.

Women have always been written out of history. Is David Starkey seriously going to suggest that the elements of human life which he clearly does not understand (such as deeply personal relationships between men and women and the way that strong - and not-so-strong women can influence a man) have no bearing on the direction that man's life takes?

Pity he wasn't on the Today programme to respond. Did he perhaps appear later in the week to exonerate show himself up?

It's like Dickens - great writer, absolutely no knowledge about women whatsoever. Madonna/ whore complex. Does that mean that women in Victorian society were all sluts and saints? Or just that his viewpoint on life, like Starkey's was so pinpoint narrow as to seriously limit his work?

UnquietDad · 22/09/2009 23:58

"Do you think there's just possibly something a wee bit telling about the way you reject all options bar the one that puts 'he' first?"

?? Only if you want there to be. You can put she/he if you like, doesn't bother me... honestly, paranoia!!

MrsMerryHenry · 23/09/2009 00:00

UQD I think you're just playing devil's advocate. You'll probably flame me now for mentioning the devil

GrimmaTheNome · 23/09/2009 00:05

you're safe enough, he is a self-confessed devil's advocate.

He has to use this term as the only other appropriate designation would be 'stirrer'.

GrimmaTheNome · 23/09/2009 00:06

PS - and long may he continue performing this function.

UnquietDad · 23/09/2009 00:07

I occasionally lend out my spoon.

MrsMerryHenry · 23/09/2009 00:10

UQD you've done a marvellous job - 17 pages and counting!

MrsMerryHenry · 23/09/2009 00:14

But UQD I wonder whether you're hiding behind the term 'devil's advocate' so as to conceal your true leanings towards misogyny? I sense that your whole reason for being such a regular presence on a forum which is, let's face it, exclusively intended for women, is a misguided attempt to destabilise female society from the grassroots, in order to achieve the ultimate diabollical aim of returning the locus of power to its rightful owner: the male Goliath.

Wouldn't you say?

MrsMerryHenry · 23/09/2009 00:15

right, off to bed. Night, y'all!

LeninGrad · 23/09/2009 07:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 23/09/2009 07:23

I'm with you, LeninGrad.

LeninGrad · 23/09/2009 07:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyMidnightMT · 23/09/2009 07:55

OMG. There we have it. The 'M' word in all it's out of context glory.

Lenin, on male forums this is what defines debates. Arguing the toss. Men like a bit of argy bargy, just for the sake of it. It preforms a public service too in helping them let off steam - a bit like footie.

I don't mind it. But I don't go on those forums for fun, as I do with MN. I'm sure UQD is pulling his punches. I'm pretty sure he's not a misogyniost though.

LeninGrad · 23/09/2009 08:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dailymailrus · 23/09/2009 08:56

If UQD is a misogynist I'd be very surprised.

But I did think his argument on here was pointless and weak and obviously the paper should have said she/he.

I don?t think many children know that ?he? has different meanings, and would assume the teacher was looking for answers on a male scientist.

Not your best postings UQD.

UnquietDad · 23/09/2009 09:39

Well, you may think that. Opinions on here varied as you will see if you read the thread back. (Although I don't blame anyone for not doing so, as it became a bit of a monster.)

No, I don't argue for argument's sake. I need to believe what I am saying. But I do sometimes enjoy not letting it go..... Often, though, there is a need for the other side to be put.

stillstanding · 23/09/2009 09:44

Have I missed something here? UQD did have a point, namely that there is a generic "he", which I (alone here it seems) agree with. I agree though (as I think UQD does) that it is best to avoid it wherever possible - something which could easily have been done in the specific context of the homework question. In any event there is an interesting discussion to be had on the subject and I'm not sure why others are protesting ...

Edam, I use "they" sometimes but I'm not a big fan. I know that between the choice of offending women by using the generic "he" and offending pedants by mixing the plural with the singular it makes more sense to offend the latter but I don't like it ... possibly because I personally don't take offence at "he" when the writer's intention is clear and I find using the plural can be confusing in context.

ZephirineDrouhin · 23/09/2009 10:09

stillstanding I think we are all agreed that there is a generic he that was in common usage in the past. The disagreement is over whether it is still appropriate to use it, particularly in this instance.

Unquietdad came into this debate declaring that he was the correct generic, which a lot of us naturally felt the need to take issue with. It now emerges after hours of repeating this point that he thinks he/she would probably be better but doesn't think it really matters. Which, as Lenin says, is wearing to say the least.

MT I see your misogynist alarm has gone off again. Have another look at MrsMH's post - does it not look a little tongue in cheek to you?

LadyMidnightMT · 23/09/2009 10:44

Lets just hope UQD feels the same! If him playing the Milli Tant card was a low blow, regardless of its irony, so's this. Two wrongs and all that.

(PS I know I'm always getting my its and it's's wrong. It's my flying fingers and refusal to proof posts! )

MrsMerryHenry · 23/09/2009 10:53

Yes, I agree that UQD did have a point to make, and that it is worth discussing the needle-fine points of just how 'he' is used with generic intent - at least so that we know what we are talking about when we complain about it. At the same time I agree with Leningrad about the 'debating' style, which is little more than a game. Games are great in certain circumstances, but when they're played in the context of a thoughtful discussion it becomes rather puerile. I think in this particular context UQD was on the fence and so not quite guilty of the 'puerile' charge!

However, I certainly didn't expect anyone to take my last post seriously!!! ROFLROFLROFL! LadyMMT, every time you get your knickers in a twist on this thread it makes me PMSL! Are you an extrovert, perchance? You seem to have the 'speak first, think later' thing down to a T - it's very entertaining, so I'm really not taking the piss here (am more extro than intro so I should know!).

LadyMidnightMT · 23/09/2009 11:21

I'm kickers are not in a twist. Pray, calm yourself madam. I am being droll, don't you know. (obviuosly grinning emoticons are useless to show good humour)

LadyMidnightMT · 23/09/2009 11:21

I do have a headache though