to want SOME control over packed lunches?

[kinderfool]

DD's (6yo) first day back at school today and she was a bit nervous about her new class so in her packed lunch, besides her drinks bottle, ham sandwich, a plum, piece of cheese (proper cheese not cheese spread or something) and a box of cherry tomatoes (at least 10 or more), I put in a Kinder egg (a massive treat for her) to cheer her up.

Comes to pick up and she'd had a reasonable day but was anxious to tell me she'd really wanted to eat her egg but hadn't been allowed. Checked her lunch bag expecting that she'd tried to eat that first and been stopped but after checking first and asking her, found out she'd eaten every crumb of everything else and had one little bite of choc before the TA watching stopped her. And it wasn't as if certain things aren't allowed, there's no nut allergy notifications at her school, and no set down rules about what can/can't be brought.

Now I completely sympathise with the need to crack down on kids who get a lunch of Coke, crisps and chocolate AND would completely understand if it was the toy they'd objected to (but dd was told by me she could eat the egg but not to even open the toy bit, to bring it home with her instead and knowing her she'd have repeated this parrot-style to the TA), but this just seems completely overboard for the first day.

As far as I can see, what I sent her with is a balanced meal so as long as it stays that way it should be of no concern to anyone else what I want her to eat. Plus she's a skinny little thing (thanks to never staying still) so the very last thing I need is someone putting ideas into her head that it's only ever acceptable to eat uber-healthy foods.

AIBU to, in a very polite and reasonable way, tell the TA to keep her nose out?

hmc, I believe my well-constructed argument has already been fully presented. I managed it without using insults like "twattery" and "numpty", though.

clemette, I'm sorry but this is not about kneejerk opposition to authority or about getting revenge for my own traumatic school days.

You should try it. Its very liberating

So what is it MsH? If you don't like the school rules choose another school/home educate surely?

Sorry, but what a fuss.

No child NEEDS to eat sweets, crisps or chocolate whilst at school, & I'm finding it quite difficult to understand why anyone would throw their toys out of the pram over their perceived 'right' to send them.

Yes, the majority of parents are quite capable of deciding what to put in a lunchbox, small treats included. The majority of parents are perfectly capable of dressing their children in practical & attractive clothing, yet we still have school uniform.

It's about being a member of a community which has rules which are inevitably broad-brush, & which you accept because they are beneficial to the community as a whole if irritating & slightly inconvenient to you.

If the school dinners at your school are of poor quality (they're bloody dreadful at the school where I teach) then kick up a row about that!

But honestly, how difficult is it to pack a lunch of sandwiches, yoghurt & fruit & then give your dc a slab of cake/choccy biccy when they get home, if that's what you want to do? Who is actually disadvantaged by not being allowed a Kinder egg in their pack-up?

Oh raven - please post that again. It's such a relief to read it. You know that feeling when you think you are starting to go slowly insane?

I'm in Scotland and the school dinners here are very good and very nutritional, however my dd2 does not have them because it's cheaper to send her with a packed lunch.

She has a ham & cheese or cucumber sandwich, some dried apricots, an apple or banana, a salami stick some days but not every day. If I've had time to bake she'll have a muffin/blondie whatever I've made as well.
She also takes a little bag of cookies/animal biscuits one for morning and one for afternoon break. Oh and she has a bottle of water.

I don't see the problem in sending in a small piece of chocolate of some kind for your child if you are the one providing the food.
As far as I'm aware our school doesn't have any rules apart from no fizzy drinks, which I wouldn't send anyway.
We also don't have to sign anything to say we agree to any school policy, I've never heard of any school doing that.

In my opinion YANBU.

Linnet - am amazed your school allows biscuits for both morning and afternoon breaks, most allow only fruit/veg/cheese

i DO think schools should draw the line at items that are obviously sweets, rather than a chocolate biscuit or piece of cake

i have never heard anything as mad as a kinder egg in a lunch box.

As I said there doesn't appear to be any policy of what they can or can't eat. Sometimes dd eats her apricots/apple/banana at one of the breaks and eats the biscuits with lunch. It depends on her mood. But seeing as last week was the first full week of going to school all day and having lunch at school things may well be tweaked. She loves her veg and will hapily eat carrot sticks, grapes etc. Plus the school give them fresh fruit in the class room, all p1-p3 children get this where we are, not sure if it's done all over Britian or not.

I agree with others who have said that if the parents are providing the food they school have no right to comment. Obviously if a child is coming to school every day with a packet of crisps and a bottle of coke for lunch then something should be said.

What, & get my arse flamed twice HMC?

I think the problems lie with inconsistent rules (allowed chocolate at break but not lunch, or vice versa, or whatever it was...) & crappy school lunches.

Linnet, many schools do have a home/school agreement - certainly at secondary level if not primary.

In practice, it's mostly a way of knowing that parents have read the rules. The HSA isn't legally binding. The school will apply their policies whether the parent & child have signed or not.

& there's obviously nothing wrong with your dd's packed lunch! But schools HAVE to be able to say 'no choc' if they will otherwise get kids arriving with a bag of Monster Munch, 3 Snickers & a Red Bull. It's just not practicable to be judging each lunch box individually.

We once had a parent who threatened us with the European Court of Human Rights for false imprisonment for keeping their 14 year old for a ten minute lunchtime detention...

my dc's lunchbox has in it ,marmite or tuna or peanut butter sandwich,baby tomatos and cucumber sticks, fromage frais, grapes or satsuma, and either crisps or penguin/mini kit kat. On a friday the teacher gives the children a lollipop, or small pkt of haribos as a reward
for good behaviour. I also give them a treat each day after school. fudge bar or milkyway etc.I think that exercise and a wellbalanced diet, including treats ,is the way to go.

I've never heard of this home/school agreement. I wonder if it's something that they just do in English schoools? My dd1 has just started high school this year and we didn't have to sign anything for her school either.

Home school agreements are very common but they don't extend to lunches-the school just tell the parent the policy.
I don't see a problem with it, it is a very short part of the day-you can stuff your DC with chocolate before 9am and between 3.30pm and bedtime if you wish! I am sure they can cope without it in a lunch box. As someone said earlier it was a great help to her because her DC saw everyone eating fruit and drinking water and now does it as a norm.
In my house I can dictate what people do, e.g. no one smokes and if a visiting DC arrived eating candyfloss I would make them finish it in the garden and wash their hands before they came in. If they don't like the ruless they don't need to visit!
In the same way if you don't like the school lunch policy you are allowed to take your DC home for lunch-it used to be the norm at one time before a lot of mothers worked.
I think you are probably safe MsHighwater-as you live in Scotland and they are known for having one of the worst diets in the world!!
Perhaps Scottish schools think the battle to make a difference is too daunting to even start! I think that when childhood obesity is a massive problem it is great that schools are trying to educate.

'Was out on lunch duty the other day and one of the TAs bought me out a massive piece of coffee cake and I asked her to leave it inside because I would have felt so guilty eating it in front of the children!! Don't know about other TAs/Teachers' staff rooms, but I'm afraid ours is always full of "naughty" things, like cakes/biscuits etc - next we'll have a policy for staff to sign......... '

This is very common and I do so wish that it extended to staff-I would sign!
I find it very difficult, I don't eat between meals and I only have a sandwich, or salad, and fruit in my lunch box. I inwardly groan when I see cake or chocolate on the side, I don't want to appear anti social, but neither do I want to eat it. I mentally cast around for excuses not to eat it, or wonder how small a piece I can get away with.
It is a hazard I would love to do without.

No you are not being uneasonable, what most people don't know is that it is a DCSF missive that children should not be allowed sweets in their lunchboxes. The schools are being told what to do by the goevernment, they are not deciding for themselves. One of a great many ways in which the government will try to control familiy life while you are at school.

We were told that our children were only allowed to bring water to drink, and because we might sneek squash in instead, we had to send the drinks in a see through bottle.

DD was hungry at breaktimes because she was only allowed fruit, despite me asking for her to be allowed a more filling healthy choice. She suffered stomachaches and lack of concentration as a result. In the end we left school to home ed (which was the best decision for us) one of the, many, reasons why we left was endless government interference in family life.

" endless government interference in family life. "

I think this is what a lot of people are reacting to more than wanting to put sweets in their children's lunches.
While people are generally accepting of reasonable interference they resent what they see as unreasonable micromanagement of their families.
And dictating what you feed your child (when there is no apparent problem) is stepping over the line.

Yes, and their new eat healthy plan whatever its called, you fill in the form with the info on what your child has eaten and send it off to get a personalised plan, what people don't realise is that this is a survey, all the responses are being recorded on a database. I want to decide how to look after my family. I'm sensible, we eat have a very healthy diet etc.

They are only dictating what to feed your DC between 9am and 3.30 five days a week with 13 weeks entirely exempt. It isn't a very big proportion of a year.
When I was a child we all had school lunches (unless you went home-packed lunches were not allowed)and there was a main course and pudding, with no choice. We had milk at morning break (I chose not to have it). We had no snacks. We had water with the school meal and access to water if the weather was hot. We survived and no one complained! I think children were a lot fitter. I also walked over a mile to school and the same back at the end of the day. Sometimes I had money to call at the shop on the way home for sweets-but mainly not.

Its not fine by me. My children are my responsibility, not that of the state.

raven, your post of 23:29 says it all. Very well put, and a bit of good sense.

You took one of my options mentioned earlier for MsHighwater, onefunkymama. You don't have to go the full step of HE unless it suits you, taking them out for lunch is an option.
I suspect that most people don't want to HE and it would be inconvenient to collect and return at lunchtime.
If they are relying on the school to have their DC at lunchtime it is only reasonable that they have some rules.
If a DC came to my house for lunch they would have to get what they were given. If they came with their own lunchbox full of crisps and chocolate and nothing else, I think I would say, nicely,lets save that for you to take home and give them what we were having. I can do this if it is my house-the parent can argue,and may not like me as a consequence-but I can do it! If the parent doesn't like it they shouldn't send them to lunch with me!

I agree wholeheartedly with raven's post of 23.29. There is nothing to add to it so I will finish.
I find it difficult to believe that people are arguing for the right to feed their DC junk at lunchtime!!!
At school your DCs are the responsibility of the state onefunkymama-they are in loco parentis You have opted out -probably the only solution for you.

But in the days when children had schooldinners, the schol effectively had control over what children ate, and noone complained then!

I agree with Raven.
What´s so hard about no chocolate, sweets, biscuits for the school day?

When you serve a meal at home, does it consist of crisps, sweets, bisciuts and/or chocolate?

Picesmoon, I assume that wasn't meant to be a personal statement?

If my children are the responsibility of the state at lunchtime and want to impose their view of 'healthy' meals, then maybe they should provide those meals.
And perhaps those meals should be standardised so that it's not down to the variety of interpretation of a healthy meal depending on the dinner-time supervisor's view.
But if it was standardised it wouldn't take into account children such as Gorionines. So that wouldn't work anyway.
So, why not stick to educating parents and children about nutrition and trust parents to know what is okay for their children's lunch and just have a word with those parents who repeatedly give rubbish to their children for lunch.