to truly believe that there are too many people making living on benefits a lifestyle choice?

[preparestobeflamed]

While I really do feel for people, who through no fault of their own, find themselves on benefits, struggling to bring up their children on a pittance, am I the only one who truly believes that for a large number of people, living on benefits is a lifestyle choice??

It may just be the people I know, but I have one friend who refuses to work - no children or partner, another friend who from leaving school decided she was going to have children, has had 2 children by unknown fathers so far, and all at the tax payers expense and is now planning her 3rd, to some unsuspecting man she hopes to meet on a night out, and another friend who is due her 4th baby anyday, by a man who pays her no child support whatsoever, even though he is a high earner working full time and who lives in the next town with his mum and dad. She believes he will move in one day, i think not and when he does stay with her, she makes it public knowledge that she is continuing to claim she is an unemployed single parent to continue getting all the benefits, even when he has stayed for months and all those mentioned have the opinion that they are entitled to live off of benefits for as long as they live.

They just feel so entitled it's untrue!!!!

I am beginning to believe that people who do not pay tax should not be entitled to vote, since why should these people who do not contribute a penny to the system, and possibly may never contribute a penny to the system, be able to have a say as to how the money the country generates is spent????

I also am of the belief that anybody who does not have dependents, is not elderly, sick or disabled should not receive any benefit unless it is contribution based benefit.

Am I really BU??

Am I the only one who gets so angry at these lazy people, who live off of their children for as long as they can, and in some cases, are swayed to have children because they do not want to work??

Duh. What?

Answer the bloody question. Are you saying that the "PARASITES BONE IDLE DOSSERS" who refuse to work should have all their benefits stopped?

It's a yes or no answer really.

I am sad to see that any posts where people have actually acknowledged that in their opinion, there are people who have no intention of working, have been ignored by the group pack who seem quite happy to support everyone in this country who has no intention of ever working.

There are people on here, as there are in RL, who realise that some dont want to work ever, and who do choose that lifestyle, and there are people on here, as there are in RL, who do not believe that anyone chooses not to work and rely on benefits forever.

I feel lucky that my pc lets me see all the posts, and not the select ones I wish to see only.
I am also happy to be able to see that we do live in a society that provides a welfare system that IS SOMETIMES ABUSED BY PEOPLE WHO DO NOT HAVE ANY INTENTION OF EVER WORKING.

It is becoming rather clear that there are too many people who are not reading what I have written before they respond.

Preparestobeflamed

You really don't get it, do you?

You cannot possibly know who is deserving of support without knowing everything about each person. You don't, you are making wild assumptions.

There are so many reasons that lots of people find it hard to operate within the very strict capitalist model we live by. Mental illness, poor parenting, low self-esteem, being treated like scum by readers of the Daily Mail - the list goes on and on.

The fact is that capitalism wouldn't work without large swathes of the population languishing at the bottom. You actually NEED these people to be sitting on benefits in order for you to be superior and living your comfortable life at the top.

I'd also like to know how you know for such certainty that there are loads of people making a career out of living on benefits. Have you met all these people?

I believe that most people are just doing the best that they can.

Prepare - There are almost 6 million people claiming benefit, are you suggesting that most of these do so through choice?

Or are you basing your 'life style' choice theory on the FEW people you know claim benefit or the FEW you have read about?

Abubu - at one point my DB was also "doing great - claiming on the sick".......does that make it a bad thing that he was actually doing great even though he was on benefits? So people on benefits aren't allowed to be doing well.

That's a shame - maybe I should go back to just over a year ago when I was on benefits and not doing great - was in a really really bad place. Now I'm still on the benefits, (different ones) and yes I'm doing great thank you very much

"I'd also like to know how you know for such certainty that there are loads of people making a career out of living on benefits. Have you met all these people?"

In support of the OP...

I don't think the OP needs to "know" all of these people to know that abuse of the system is going on.

I don't personally know anyone who's committed a crime - does that mean it doesn't happen?

Alwayslookingforanswers -

But why was he "doing great"

Surely if he was a genuine claimant his mother would have said something along the lines of

"well hes not very well at the moment but hes getting some benefits"

I think the "hes going great..." was a bit of a giveaway to be honest

whoisasking

You presume wrong. I do not think sterilisation is appropriate, nor do I think single parents are the underclass, as you seem to be insinuating.

Prevention is better than cure, yes. Society, govt, parents and schools should come together to prevent their children wanting to become parents without being able to support their children. This is done by education and good parenting.

I have a DD, and I would be horrified if her only ambition in life was to have lots of children by any guy who was willing to do the deed, so she could live off of the state forever. I would definitely not condone that behaviour at all. I would want her to be in a loving relationship, where she didn't have to scrape by, and she had a little financial security and a home for her children before she decided to get pregnant.
Of course, I am not suggesting that every single parent falls under this category, but some do.

If a woman is in a solid relationship, and finds herself single after conceiving, then I agree that she should be supported.

My point is that I don't believe it's as widespread as prepares appears to think it is.

Of course some people milk the system, just the same as some people commit crime - doesn't mean it is prolific in any way.

Interesting article on this Subject in the Sunday Times last week.

By preparestobeflamed on Fri 04-Sep-09 11:32:49
LuluMaman

Shouldn't parents be responsible for their children? Rather than having children only to expect to be supported by the govt form the outset??

...

yes, of course, in an ideal world they should be, but that does not answer the question of how it would be under your regimen

should women on benefits be forced to have state sacntioned abortions or put their children into care ? or be sterilised after more than 5 years on benefits?

so, again, what would happen in your world, to the children who are born to these bone idle scroungers?

prepare - I think you'll find if YOU read the posts carefully that most people agree that are some who have no intentions of working, however Custards excellent post last night explained (in very brief detail - she could probably quite a thesis on the actual details) many of the reasons why there are people like that.

Abubu - I agree you dont need to know everyone to have an opinion, but you should base your opinion on fact.

I also think there is no need to insult the OP for expressing an opinion, no matter how wrong you think she may be. (not directed at you Abubu)

the education you talk about seems to have been failing for the last 2 generations, and it will take more years to kick in, so what happens to the children now and in the next 20 - 30 years.. forcing their parents, however feckless, into more deprivation will only lead to those children being even more likely to stay stuck in the poverty trap

it is a vicious circle and not as simple as you seem to think

you are very naive if you think that good parenting and education are the only keys to improving things where these people are coming from

But prepared - your DD is fortunate to have a parent who aspires to so much more for her.

preparestobeflamed

I know there are claimants out there who do not have any intention of ever working.

I am ok with this.

I am happy for 'my' taxes to pay for it.

I am happy for this to happen because it is an inevitable part of having a welfare state, and the alternative- which you imply but fall short of proposing- is abhorrent.

I think it is a shame your PC can't let you see whoisaskings posts though.

also, i don't believe it is ok for people who do abuse the system to abuse it. but i believe it is better to have a catch all system there, rather than one that only helps those deemed deserving by the select few

prepares

OK, I can understand this viewpoint. (and I really lost my temper a bit earlier and have asked for a couple of my posts to be pulled. I apologise for getting a bit hot under the collar)

I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

Look, the point we keep just going over and over is this: Won't work is not just a simple mmatter of people being "lazy parasites" There are deep entrenched reasons for these behaviours.

The fact that you seem to "envy" people who live on a very small amount of money, baffles me.

preparestobeflamed, YANBU.

Although I don't have a strict opinion on the above, I think it is complex issue which has a lot of fraud going on. Knowing about it makes me angry, indeed.

A couple cases that I know of:

• my former landlady, as we learned only after moving out, was living with her man for ages(called him husband), had 4 children together and claimed for council house each separate as a single parent! One of these houses was rented to us, but at that time we did not have an idea it was a sublet social house. When it came to the light, we had to move out, and then it was when the landlady turned into a dragon fighting for what does not belong to her - she found fake witnesses in the court and said that we occupied the house without her knowledge for 1.5 years while she was on holidays. This was all to keep the house. We were amazed by the extent of lies she used to keep the system working for her...
• one of my acquitances was proudly telling her story about how she got a council flat when she was pregnant. She created a story the her relative is evicting her and was staying in council housing unit every day until she was entitled. She said "you need to lie and shout loudly, and you will get".

Examples that I love to give to you:

• My DH friends got unemployed and were given council house in a nice seaside town with a view to the sea (a house to die for). They have 2 children, live on benefits only, but the man starting as a teacher and the woman trying to establish her childminding business - nice example to me.

I don't know if it is possible to stop the fraud alone, I think that it was OP is trying to tackle.

I work and my DH looks after child until he gets a proper job. We were able to get a council housing but we put our efforts to get our own home instead. I guess, we are in a way fortunate...

I think people that choose low-paid job over benefits (probably works out more or less the same financially) should be encouraged by goverment by some kind of "working benefits". The person would benefit financially - wage+working benefit.
The government would benefit financially - working benefit presumably lower than full support.

I agree with prevention better than cure in that as a society we should be able to work towards a situation where most people who don't have a reason why they can't would prefer to work rather than live on long term benefits. There will always be some people who abuse the system but this should be a minimum. In fact I have no idea what that currently is and no idea how it would be measured.

toja I don't think that anyone is arguing that it's ok to fraud the system.

Prepare - Obviously there are people out who really dont want to work or who are cheating the system, i think everyone is aware of that, but i dont think its anywhere close to 6 million people. The alternative ie stopping benefits of anyone who can, but is not working, would make millions of genuine people suffer.

I tend to get more annoyed about the fat cats, the tax invaders etc, who cheat the system to roll around in their millions.